BrokenEnglishGuy
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I haven't see any speaker with only a coaxial and then subs :/ its impossible? a super LS50? no?
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Why are coaxials so rare?
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
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Is it? all of KEF's line up is passive except for the LS Wireless.
Vintage loudspeakers generally don't have drivers that can play loud with low distortion.
I don't know which speakers you have of course, but vintage speakers aren't exactly known for high capacity drivers. Either way, the point I'm trying to make is that a single 5.5" driver is powerful enough for midrange duty in any normal situation (assuming we're talking about consumer use now, not a club).
EDIT: For clarity, you can of course make both good and bad 5.5" drivers, but it's perfectly viable to make high capacity versions that are well suited for high pressure/SPL midrange duty.
Well they did a good job with what they had at the time, most of the big Sansui boys i have maintain below 1% THD even in the sub-bass.
No, they do not.
Why do you insist on only having a coax?
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Definitely not impossible then! You are right.
I have a mid that needs his own volume. That Volume you have to substract from the volume for the woofer. Dont you think so?
Under 1%? At 100dB+? I don't believe that.
BrokenEnglishGuy
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In my opinion only having a coaxial plus subs in the same box will be easier to integrate in real rooms
Plus you gain, a '' perfect '' point source, because it is.., and also you can shape the box easier in a box with 1 coaxial instead of coaxial+woofer
imho
(?)
if you build the entire speaker out of compression drivers it's not far fetched at all.
Edit: I would love to put that bad boy on a Klippel but i live in Europe.
I'm not sure exactly what we're discussing now, but I assume it's my statement "Even if you add only one, you have a 3-way (or 2.5-way) in the same space needed for a traditional 2-way"
A midrange driver typically needs minimal volume, so you wouldn't need to increase the size of a 2-way speaker a whole lot to fit a coax instead of a tweeter, especially assuming the tweeter already had its own chamber (which of course may not always be the case).
I would say you would get better integration having separate subwoofers, but since we sell that very concept I'm obviously not objective.
But in general, having a subwoofer in the exact same location as the speakers will not give you ideal bass response.
I cant agree that a typical midrange needs not much volume. You need a case. This subtracts from the Volume for the bass. Sure this can add to stabilIty of case. But a tweeter needs just some area on the frontside.
Sure, they are not the same question, but there must be a lot of correlation and overlap in the answers. So question remains: what have you learned about this question from the other topic? Speculation is encouragedAsking why are they rare and asking if they have any downsides is a completely different thing
You can’t expect us to do all the work
Agreed. We've solved this issue by separating bass duties to a subwoofer, leaving the speaker to only play midbass (-3dB at 90hz). This way we need even less volume than a traditional 2-way speaker while still having room for twin 5.5" drivers for midbass duty.
ernestcarl
Major Contributor
Though, I was thinking more of the compression horn-loaded + waveguided types.
If we look at the RX699 before and after (frequency magnitude only):
Yeah, I don't even want to imagine what this coax driver sounds like without DSP.
1. Not all of them are better than traditional designs: Many companies don't get rid of air gaps, ridges, or too high of excursion on the midwoofer to be better than a traditional design in every way.
2. Lies (often in ignorance to be fair) and archaic knowledge: Many still believe IMD is an issue with the waveguide moving too much, which can be true on a two way, but is transparent on a three way properly crossed over and designed not to have this issue.
3. Believing that nobody cares: Many people argue that vertical dispersion (which is almost always superior in a coaxial driver) doesn't matter, because they are so far away from the speakers that they never encounter issues with lobes making their speakers sound busted, or the reflections+direct sound balances things out, or they never sit on the floor, stand up, or have chairs at different heights.
Genelec has a whitepaper that covers issues like diffraction and mentions IMD, and I don't think they've ever made a non-3 way coaxial:
Emailing Genelec asking about disadvantages, the only thing that seems to be true anymore is that you can't get a massive magnet for a larger high SPL tweeter to fit, so for main monitors it's not as useful.
2. Lies (often in ignorance to be fair) and archaic knowledge: Many still believe IMD is an issue with the waveguide moving too much, which can be true on a two way, but is transparent on a three way properly crossed over and designed not to have this issue.
3. Believing that nobody cares: Many people argue that vertical dispersion (which is almost always superior in a coaxial driver) doesn't matter, because they are so far away from the speakers that they never encounter issues with lobes making their speakers sound busted, or the reflections+direct sound balances things out, or they never sit on the floor, stand up, or have chairs at different heights.
Genelec has a whitepaper that covers issues like diffraction and mentions IMD, and I don't think they've ever made a non-3 way coaxial:
Emailing Genelec asking about disadvantages, the only thing that seems to be true anymore is that you can't get a massive magnet for a larger high SPL tweeter to fit, so for main monitors it's not as useful.
antennaguru
Senior Member
Coaxial designs introduce several challenges to attaining a good sounding loudspeaker, versus a traditional two or three way loudspeaker with discrete drivers. Among those is that the designer needs to be able to build their own drivers, or accept the compromises in the coaxial drivers that another company has available for purchase. Then there are the SPL and IMD limitations that easier to overcome with discrete drivers than coaxial drivers. Coaxial designs are nothing new, and IMO were never a perfect solution. When it comes to “pinpoint” imaging there is nothing a coaxial can accomplish that a discrete driver loudspeaker cannot.
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