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GR Research

snaimpally

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I've watched many of the GR Research videos. His kit speakers seem to be pretty well designed - several of the youtubers, like NewRecordDay and CheapAudioMan, like his speakers and Amir has tested one of his popular speaker kits (XLS Encore) and found it to be good. He himself shows the frequency response curives so he is not trying to hide anything.

Danny also does measurements of other people's speakers, designs new crossovers to address issues, and shows the measurements with his crossovers. He seems to know what he is doing with crossover design as its hard to argue when he show the before and after frequency response curves.

In terms of capacitors, other companies (e.g., CSS Audio) also offer capacitor upgrades. I don't know whether capacitors make an audible difference or not. The YouTube reviewers I mentioned claim to be able to hear differences. One thing I do know is that crappy capacitors are prone to failure. I had a KEF 10" sub that stopped working. When I googled it, I found that one of the cheap capacitors was prone to failure. After I replaced it, the sub has worked fine. Danny at GR also goes on about his tube connectors. I agree that a good connection is needed but I think existing methods like bare wire or banana plugs are adequate. He gets a bad rap mostly for pushing his tube connectors but that doesn't mean the speakers he has designed are bad - they seem to be quite good, as are his crossover upgrades. This forum is about using scientific methods to review audio and so hard to argue when Danny shows the frequency response curves. Like everything else on the internet, take him with a grain of salt, but overall he does seem to know what he is doing.
 
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jonfitch

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The only Danny Ritchie designed product I ever owned was the export version of the Usher BE-718 which had it's msrp raised from $1400 for the Asia version to $2795 for the US/Europe. Danny Ritchie changed the speaker wire to silver and modified the crossover inside the speakers and claimed the upgrade was was a night and day difference. Let me tell you, I managed to get a hold of the cheaper Asian version, and it looked, performed, and measured identically. The 2x price increase for silver speaker wire and crossover wizardry didn't amount to anything in the end, and really makes you question the value added that Danny's upgrades offer.

That's my two cents, but my experience with his upgrades is they are probably more about sentimentality than an actual performance improvement.
 

snaimpally

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The only Danny Ritchie designed product I ever owned was the export version of the Usher BE-718 which had it's msrp raised from $1400 for the Asia version to $2795 for the US/Europe. Danny Ritchie changed the speaker wire to silver and modified the crossover inside the speakers and claimed the upgrade was was a night and day difference. Let me tell you, I managed to get a hold of the cheaper Asian version, and it looked, performed, and measured identically. The 2x price increase for silver speaker wire and crossover wizardry didn't amount to anything in the end, and really makes you question the value added that Danny's upgrades offer.

That's my two cents, but my experience with his upgrades is they are probably more about sentimentality than an actual performance improvement.

I don't know whether Danny had before and after response curves for the Ushers, but for the crossover upgrades he currently offers, he does show before and after response curves. That said, I wonder about the point of some of his upgrades. He has a crossover upgrade for the Sony SSCS-5. Amazon frequently has this on sale for $73/pair while his crossover upgrade is $335! Meanwhile, someone on AVS forum has developed a very inexpensive way to imrpove the response by attaching alligator clips to bypass a resistor and improve the response. Plus, it is reversible.
 

amirm

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One thing about Danny's measurements: they are gated so have no resolution below a few hundred hertz. They are usually fine by the time you get to the crossover frequency but still way too rough by our standards. We need to at some point evaluate one of his before and after mods that is no so obvious (i.e. NOT Klipsch).
 

snaimpally

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One thing about Danny's measurements: they are gated so have no resolution below a few hundred hertz. They are usually fine by the time you get to the crossover frequency but still way too rough by our standards. We need to at some point evaluate one of his before and after mods that is no so obvious (i.e. NOT Klipsch).

Agreed. I take his stuff with a grain of salt.
 

Dennis Murphy

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One thing about Danny's measurements: they are gated so have no resolution below a few hundred hertz. They are usually fine by the time you get to the crossover frequency but still way too rough by our standards. We need to at some point evaluate one of his before and after mods that is no so obvious (i.e. NOT Klipsch).
That's just a fact of life for quasi-anechoic measurements. But I'm not sure greater resolution down there would be much help for crossover upgrades. I've done a bajillion of them without a Klippel or anechoic chamber. You're pretty much stuck with the cabinet size and port tuning anyhow. What you usually need to do is build in more baffle step compensation and use a more complex topology to tame resonances higher up. I do wish I could get better resolution in the 1 kHz region, though. That's where there are often peaks and dips due to unwelcome interactions between the woofer cone termination and the surround, and they kind of get rounded off with the typical quasi-anechoic software.
 

thewas

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One more think I criticise about him is that he often measures and shows just very few angles which make his crossover mod look better, for example sometimes there is a dip on axis that fills under angles and if make that flat on axis you will have a sound power bump in that region, this is tuning loudspeakers like in the 60s, but not state of the art today where even good hobbyists use full angles and VituixCAD to tune their loudspeakers.
 

Rick Sykora

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Wow thanks everyone for the responses, have enjoyed reading them all! It is strange that the bulk of his work is based on measurable results, and then he just dives completely off a cliff and abandons all of that for other aspects of what he does. I'm desperately curious to hear his NX-Otica speakers to compare to Spatial's offerings, and I am still leaning toward buying the OB sub setup he sells. But I hope he cuts out the childish mud-slinging and snake-oil pitches...though, not holding my breath. :(

In that respect, did you find measurements for the NX-Otica? I went looking on the GR site and got the usual runaround...

1632658652625.png


The first link does not lead to an obvious posting of "measured responses". For that matter. the second one does not either. Click the twisty for MEASUREMENTS and you get blank space. The main driver used is his M165NQ. If you go to its page and click on the measurement link, you get a 404 error. For an aging loss leader like the XLS-Encore, can see why its "updated" page might be neglected, but this is supposedly a flagship kit that starts at $2600 before shipping.

For someone who likes to build and try DIY speakers, I find the website to be very frustrating and a turn off. Would be great if the audiophile superlative-laden text was backed by solid documentation. It navigates more like a hobbyist site than a serious professional one.
 
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squeedle

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In that respect, did you find measurements for the NX-Otica? I went looking on the GR site and get the usual runaround...
Nope, nada. Would be awesome to see measurements from Amir or Erin or someone on the NX-Otica and the OB subs. But they are probably too niche for that to happen any time soon.
 

dfuller

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One thing about Danny's measurements: they are gated so have no resolution below a few hundred hertz. They are usually fine by the time you get to the crossover frequency but still way too rough by our standards. We need to at some point evaluate one of his before and after mods that is no so obvious (i.e. NOT Klipsch).
Maybe one of those Elac Debuts could work? Decent enough speaker as stock, not too expensive... Actually the upgrade kit costs more than the speakers themselves, but all told it'd be ballpark $700.
 

richard12511

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One thing about Danny's measurements: they are gated so have no resolution below a few hundred hertz. They are usually fine by the time you get to the crossover frequency but still way too rough by our standards. We need to at some point evaluate one of his before and after mods that is no so obvious (i.e. NOT Klipsch).
Maybe the Revel M126be would be a good candidate.
 

TheBatsEar

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I was thinking about this. He looked into the ATC SCL19v2 and found it to be not bad. Still, he made an update kit. I have the ATC SCL19v2 and would pay for the upgrade kit, but shipping the speakers from Germany is crazy.

Anyone with a Klippel in Europe?
 

pickyAudiophile

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Wow thanks everyone for the responses, have enjoyed reading them all! It is strange that the bulk of his work is based on measurable results, and then he just dives completely off a cliff and abandons all of that for other aspects of what he does. I'm desperately curious to hear his NX-Otica speakers to compare to Spatial's offerings, and I am still leaning toward buying the OB sub setup he sells. But I hope he cuts out the childish mud-slinging and snake-oil pitches...though, not holding my breath. :(
Recorded audio quality at Ron's channel "New Record Day" is pretty decent - at least good enough to make an initial judgement IMHO. I like the sound of the NX-Otica based on the capture by Ron. Unfortunately shipping two of Danny's flatpacks to me sitting right here in the middle of the Atlantic isn't price competitive. youtube.com/watch?v=ldrL3EdnLvA
 

pickyAudiophile

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I was thinking about this. He looked into the ATC SCL19v2 and found it to be not bad. Still, he made an update kit. I have the ATC SCL19v2 and would pay for the upgrade kit, but shipping the speakers from Germany is crazy.

Anyone with a Klippel in Europe?
Why shipping speakers? If you don't want to solder it by yourself maybe you can source that out to someone in your area. He has had these speakers in his shop and the parts list is on record.
 

Killingbeans

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2) Is there any truth to his claims about good capacitors being "faster" than bad ones? Assuming two different capacitors have the same exact value, do they function identically? (For the sake of this hypothetical, let's ignore any capacitance margin of error which might be more common for cheaper capacitors and assume both ACTUALLY DO have the exact same value, and let's also not get into longevity of electrolytic media, let's just focus on the signal output).

 

Backflash

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I do like the idea of measuring and improving off-the-shelf loudspeakers though - I’ve no doubt that standard crossovers aren’t always optimal (Amir’s measurements demonstrate this), and so sensible redesign/upgrade can bring significant improvements. However you can do this without needing snake oil parts.
I bet someone would make a fortune fixing idle hiss in budget monitors for $5-10 per box. Isn't it simply adding a resistor stage before tweeter?
 
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squeedle

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Wow thank you. I just read through all of those and it was a wealth of wonderful information! @ctrl is amazing. It's also amazing how so many hucksters can spend ZERO effort to create these ridiculous myths about "audiophile" gear and that it takes so much work and years of repetition to debunk them. Doesn't seem fair. But glad to have havens like this site around to do that legwork!!!
 

thewas

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