• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Minidsp SHD Studio as a preamp

racePigeon

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
10
Location
Boston area
Hello,
For those if you that own a SHD Studio and assuming you have a very good DAC, have you compared the sound of your system with the SHD, with Dirac off, before the DAC and without it?
If so does the addition of the SHD to your system alter the sound in anyway?
Any loss of smoothness in the treble or any other change?
 

mdsimon2

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
2,478
Likes
3,315
Location
Detroit, MI
I have one and have mostly used it as source selection / volume control and have not used Dirac much. I have used it with an Okto DAC8 pro and a MOTU Ultralite Mk5 and have no complaints although I am not sure what mechanism would cause "loss of smoothness in treble". I have made some basic measurements and can tell you it is absolutely transparent.

Michael
 

Worth Davis

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 8, 2019
Messages
160
Likes
205
I use the regular SHD as a DAC and/or Preamp - I think its pretty flawless. I dont know what audio demon you are chasing, but I have never been able to identify the SHD as a weak link. Lately I have been experminenting with Audiolense leaving the SHD as a preamp/dac no dirac...its certainly as good as any denon I own.
 

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,365
Likes
1,297
I use the regular SHD with Dirac correction. It really has helped my room response.

I thought about buying the SHD studio with external DACs, but decided I simply would not hear such small improvements. I use the onboard DACs without problem. Right now, I'm driving some active speakers over RCA line level. I leave the SHD at 0 dB (full volume) and use Roon digital volume control.

I have not been using the digital media features much at all. I've moved to Roon, and the SHD cannot be a Roon endpoint right now. It used to be, then Roon stopped supported non-certified endpoints, so if you tried to add it recently it won't work. So I have a Raspberry Pi/RoPieee on the USB port. When the SHD becomes certified, I'd dump the Pi.

Another reason I bought the SHD instead of the Studio is I have a phono preamp that uses the unbal analog in. Everything else is digital.


Marc
 

MaxBuck

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
1,515
Likes
2,118
Location
SoCal, Baby!
In answer to the original question, one cannot use the SHD Studio as a preamplifier. It is a purely digital component. One might use the SHD as a preamp, though.
 

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,365
Likes
1,297
In answer to the original question, one cannot use the SHD Studio as a preamplifier. It is a purely digital component. One might use the SHD as a preamp, though.

The SHD Studio has input selectors and digital volume control (via DSP), plus 4 variable output channels. Maybe you'd call it a digital router with variable gain? Sounds like a preamp to me, even though it's not technically amplifying anything.

Is there a different term you'd use for it?

Marc
 

MaxBuck

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
1,515
Likes
2,118
Location
SoCal, Baby!
The SHD Studio has input selectors and digital volume control (via DSP), plus 4 variable output channels. Maybe you'd call it a digital router with variable gain? Sounds like a preamp to me, even though it's not technically amplifying anything.

Is there a different term you'd use for it?

Marc
Yes. I'd call it a DSP.
 

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,365
Likes
1,297
Yes. I'd call it a DSP.

I'm not trying to be a pain about this or be snarky; I'm actually interested in how one talks about a digital preamp. I use the term "digital preamp" to mean something that can do source selection and tone/balance/volume in the digital domain. Basically all the features one thinks of on an analog preamp. I realize it has no amps in it, in the tradition analog sense, apart from line drivers and input buffers.

One can have a DSP without those features, especially input selection. So, I would not think that DSP is the right term for something with input selection and digital volume control. There must be a term for it?

Marc
 

MaxBuck

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
1,515
Likes
2,118
Location
SoCal, Baby!
I'm not trying to be a pain about this or be snarky; I'm actually interested in how one talks about a digital preamp. I use the term "digital preamp" to mean something that can do source selection and tone/balance/volume in the digital domain. Basically all the features one thinks of on an analog preamp. I realize it has no amps in it, in the tradition analog sense, apart from line drivers and input buffers.

One can have a DSP without those features, especially input selection. So, I would not think that DSP is the right term for something with input selection and digital volume control. There must be a term for it?

Marc
One can have a preamplifier without a phono stage, or with or without a DAC. But you can't call a component a preamplifier if it provides no amplification. At least not to me.
 

radix

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
1,365
Likes
1,297
One can have a preamplifier without a phono stage, or with or without a DAC. But you can't call a component a preamplifier if it provides no amplification. At least not to me.

I get that it's not really an amplifier. I think quite a few people use the term "preamp" to simply mean the thing before the amplifiers with source selection and volume/tone control, and do not pay attention to the level matching and driving done by an analog preamp.

But in a digital world, there must be a term for the digital equivalent. I see some companies simply call them a DAC, even though they do input selection and volume control to variable output line level. Others call them converters, as they can convert different digital formats and do NxM switching.

Anyway, I've likely hijacked this thread enough.

marc
 

Sir Sanders Zingmore

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
947
Likes
1,899
Location
Melbourne, Australia
The SHD Studio has input selectors and digital volume control (via DSP), plus 4 variable output channels. Maybe you'd call it a digital router with variable gain? Sounds like a preamp to me, even though it's not technically amplifying anything.

Is there a different term you'd use for it?

Marc
The SHD (“full” version) also does its volume control in the digital domain.
 
OP
racePigeon

racePigeon

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
10
Location
Boston area
So
One can have a preamplifier without a phono stage, or with or without a DAC. But you can't call a component a preamplifier if it provides no amplification. At least not to me.

So what about a passive preamp? You don't call it a preamp I guess..
 

MaxBuck

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
1,515
Likes
2,118
Location
SoCal, Baby!
I continue to be confused by the difference between gain, volume and amplification, so I should just shut up about this whole business.
 

ex audiophile

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
635
Likes
805
I continue to be confused by the difference between gain, volume and amplification, so I should just shut up about this whole business.

Damn preamps are demons, especially the Denon demons :eek:
 
OP
racePigeon

racePigeon

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
14
Likes
10
Location
Boston area
I use the regular SHD as a DAC and/or Preamp - I think its pretty flawless. I dont know what audio demon you are chasing, but I have never been able to identify the SHD as a weak link. Lately I have been experminenting with Audiolense leaving the SHD as a preamp/dac no dirac...its certainly as good as any denon I own.

Not happy with Dirac? or trying to compare it to other solutions?
 

f1shb0n3

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
322
Likes
498
Location
Seattle Area
Hello,
For those if you that own a SHD Studio and assuming you have a very good DAC, have you compared the sound of your system with the SHD, with Dirac off, before the DAC and without it?
If so does the addition of the SHD to your system alter the sound in anyway?
Any loss of smoothness in the treble or any other change?

I'm using SHD (which is the same as SHD Studio with additional 2xADC inputs and 2xDAC outputs which I don't use) with an external Topping D90 DAC. Dirac Live processing has been the most significant audible improvement in my system - it does not only correct for room effects in bass region, but also "fixes" your speakers' impulse response for tightly and precisely focused imaging. The effect is clearly audible and described the same by anyone who tried it (including the proverbial wife, not from the other room though :p) Without Dirac I can hear objects on the soundstage (vocals, instruments, etc.) as large fuzzy blobs somewhere between my speakers and when Dirac is enabled the same objects "shrink" into a precise location and move further away behind the speakers.

Note that treble can be "lost" with Dirac if you correct full range 20Hz-20,000Hz. If you like your speaker's treble you can shrink the range of correction down to 500Hz for room treatment only and leave the rest as is, while still getting the amazing imaging improvement from impulse response correction. You can also very easily customize the curve to your liking with higher treble for example. I did not like the default curve they supply and boosted the bass a bit to be closer to Harman target and adjusted the treble rolloff to my liking.

I would suggest you get a Dirac Live for PC/Mac trial and check it out yourself. It should get you the same results as SHD Studio or any other box that has it.

Btw - A/B compared level matched a few DACs (SHD with AK4490 chip vs RME ADI-2 with AK4493 vs Topping D90 with AK4499 vs Topping D90SE with ES9038PRO) and they basically sound the same to me and would not be able to distinguish them blindly. Even if you are a rare "golden ear" type of person you will still have to put intense focus to be able to parse any differences (if such exist) and essentially the DAC won't matter at all for your enjoyment of music, as long as you get something that measures decently.
 

YSDR

Active Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
273
Likes
287
I'm using SHD (which is the same as SHD Studio with additional 2xADC inputs and 2xDAC outputs which I don't use) with an external Topping D90 DAC.

Btw - A/B compared level matched a few DACs (SHD with AK4490 chip vs RME ADI-2 with AK4493 vs Topping D90 with AK4499 vs Topping D90SE with ES9038PRO) and they basically sound the same to me and would not be able to distinguish them blindly.
Thanks for sharing your experience! But then why do you using an external DAC if you can't distinguish from the SHD's own DAC? Just asking.
 
Last edited:

f1shb0n3

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
322
Likes
498
Location
Seattle Area
Thanks for sharing your experience! But then why you using an external DAC if you can't distinguish from the SHD's own DAC? Just asking.

There is in fact an actual (inconsequential) audible difference, forgot to mention - when I put my ear close to the tweeter I can hear hiss with SHD up to 2 inches from it while D90 I can hear it only when my ear is right on it. D90SE that I borrowed I could barely hear any at all. This is with a clean Purifi-based amp (March Audio P452) and Elac DBR-62 speakers.

Makes me feel good to use well engineered tech and had bought it already for the comparison. I can see myself swapping for an SHD Studio eventually if I have a chance to reduce the footprint of the boxes.
 
Last edited:

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,297
Likes
5,075
Location
Nashville
I would have opted for the regular SHD if I were using it for 2 channel stereo only. I highly doubt I or anyone else would hear much, if any difference, between it's DAC and any other regardless of price or SINAD rating. Because I need a multichannel DAC, I went for the OCTO 8 Pro, and I'm using software on my PC to perform the functions I would have relied on the miniDSP for.

But, yeah, if I were rocking 2 channels only, I'd probably opt for the SHD. The Studio does everything the SHD does, except provide analog input, A to D, and obviously D to A conversion. Neither SHD unit offers FIR filters. The 2 x 4 HD at $200+ does, albeit with a limited number of taps.
 
Top Bottom