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The truth about Apple Engineering?

jhaider

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I have had Macs for 31 years...
I haven't bought a new Macbook because of the poor connectivity for what I want. I appreciate the magsafe connection, for example.
So for my use the new ones are worse then the one I have (i7 and 16Gb)

I've had Macs for about half that long, and agreed to all of the above. Especially magsafe. Getting rid of that was just plain stupid.

I hope my 2015 MacBook Pro lasts forever, because I don't want to get a new one.
 

Sal1950

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Boy that guy has a hard-on for Apple. LOL
Never owned a Mac so I can't make any comments.
 

DWPress

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Ok, gotta jump in on this one. Yes, Apple products are overpriced for what you get and yes, there are hardware issues (and OS) that occur with a percentage of their products and yes, engineering could be a little more responsive to known issues and yes, supported peripheral devices are fewer than PC offerings.

However every other manufacturer is plagued with these issues as well (hello Samsung) except for the overpriced bit. They are overpriced primarily because of the easily exploitable fan base but there is a reason folks are loyal to their Macs:
  1. A mostly reliable and consistant OS that is mostly immune and secure without need of extra protection and system resources
  2. It's a closed system - Apple only supports a limited amount of hardware which means fewer drivers are needed and they are easier to keep current and harmonious with the OS. This is a blessing or a curse if the suppliers and developers don't do their part to keep things current but same with other OSs. Microsoft and their vendors must somehow support an uncountable number of peripherals, drivers and software products - much of which just expands the risk of security vulnerabilities and 3rd party drivers and software conflict with each other and the OS more frequently than in OSX.
  3. They hold their value
  4. They are innovators for better or worse: Firewire, Displayport and Lightning are all tech that other companies could not adapt as early (back to point 2)
  5. Apple really does do a good job of keeping older machines able to upgrade the OS or security updates (until hardware dependencies necessitate otherwise)
  6. The above point does not apply to their mobile devices o_O
I love the Louis Rossmann videos too, I've learned how to fix a lot of gear watching them and agree with his frustration with Apples lack of disclosure and resource sharing. I've worked with Apple products for the past 30 years and have been repairing, modding and hacking them for the past 10. I've also worked with other OSs too and tend to prefer Linux over Win, I know how to code for those platforms better than how to use them though so still keep an old machine that tripple boots XP, Win7 and Ubuntu so I can hash out code using now ancient but still effective tools.

Let me go back to point 3 though. A 2010 Macbook with a C2D & 8GB of RAM still has an average selling price of $250 compared to a similar Dell at $80 - both are able to run the current OS and will have equal downfalls doing so but there's actually a market for the Macbook.:p Vintagey iPhones are even better when a 2013 16GB 5s will still somehow fetch $70 on average - just try that with your 6 year old Android device. Hell, you can buy a new one for that....

Let's face it though, 90% of people who still purchase laptop or desktop computers do very little beyond email, web surfing & streaming and maybe some some light word processing. There is no benefit to them having a machine newer than 8 years old really and would be better served having a phablet of some sort. Even the DSP many on these forums implement can run reasonably well on these older machines.

End of rant. Not trying to defend Apple here really - just explaining why they have their place in computing world. In fact the company has alienated many of their greatest advocates and buyers in recent years not offering new updated desktop machines and restricting the OS even further to power users who actually know how to use computers.
 
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Sal1950

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NEVER FORGET, what it cost us when Eve talked Adam into biteing the Apple! :eek: :p
 

Blumlein 88

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NEVER FORGET, what it cost us when Eve talked Adam into biteing the Apple! :eek: :p
If you want to play, you have to pay.

Sometimes the price is steep, and still leaves one satisfied.

Sometimes the price cheap and no fun all the same.
 

Frank Dernie

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I used to be happy to pay. The hardware was usually higher spec than (most) PCs and Apple OS was so much better than anything Microsoft ever came up with. Linux is great but needs more messing with.
I do feel that steadily Apple software (its raison d'etre IMO) has drifted downhill over recent years. It is by no means sure an update is actually an upgrade as they continue to call it. iTunes is certainly far less useful to me than it was a few generations ago, even though it will be more profitable and convenient for Apple now.
Maybe they have seen how much money Google make out of Android's "hidden features" and want a spoonful of that action?
I hope iOS never gets as bad as Android or Apple gets as greedy and ruthless as Google but it certainly seems they are going that way :(
 

Sal1950

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I used to be happy to pay. The hardware was usually higher spec than (most) PCs and Apple OS was so much better than anything Microsoft ever came up with. Linux is great but needs more messing with.
I'd have to dis-agree with that one. There are distro's out there that require much less "messin with" than Windz.
I have installs around the community for use by seniors that can't deal with the constant problems from Doz. I do a PCLOS install for them, then just forget about it. No updates, no virus software or issues with malisous virus or malware getting installed no matter what websites they've visited, etc, etc, etc. For day to day computing it's trouble and worry free.
 

rebbiputzmaker

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I'd have to dis-agree with that one. There are distro's out there that require much less "messin with" than Windz.
I have installs around the community for use by seniors that can't deal with the constant problems from Doz. I do a PCLOS install for them, then just forget about it. No updates, no virus software or issues with malisous virus or malware getting installed no matter what websites they've visited, etc, etc, etc. For day to day computing it's trouble and worry free.
Watching porno?
Senior-Citzens-930x620.jpg
 

Frank Dernie

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I'd have to dis-agree with that one. There are distro's out there that require much less "messin with" than Windz.
I have installs around the community for use by seniors that can't deal with the constant problems from Doz. I do a PCLOS install for them, then just forget about it. No updates, no virus software or issues with malisous virus or malware getting installed no matter what websites they've visited, etc, etc, etc. For day to day computing it's trouble and worry free.
Sorry, my suggestion was in comparison to Mac. I haven't used Windows since I retired, and when I did it was only for work and they had a (much called upon) IT department to keep the thing running.
One of the senior IT guys came to me one day and asked me what to do, his girlfriend had bought a Mac and asked him to set it up. He only had knowledge of Microsoft.
I said just switch it on and answer the obvious questions, it'll probably work. It did.
 
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Dialectic

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I'd have to dis-agree with that one. There are distro's out there that require much less "messin with" than Windz.
I have installs around the community for use by seniors that can't deal with the constant problems from Doz. I do a PCLOS install for them, then just forget about it. No updates, no virus software or issues with malisous virus or malware getting installed no matter what websites they've visited, etc, etc, etc. For day to day computing it's trouble and worry free.

My 12-year-old Dell laptop has been trouble-free since I installed LXLE. I've never had a serious failure or lock-up with it. I'm typing this post on it, and I leave this ancient computer running 24/7.

My $1500 MBP failed within five years of purchase and needed two screens, the battery, and the entire body replaced over that span because of various defects. Not to mention, OS X was always more of a pain to deal with than Linux has been.

I've blown the money I've saved from not buying new computers on audio gear.
 

Grave

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Laptops fail at a much higher rate than desktops. I built a gaming PC and I have no laptop atm. It is a bit noisy but it looks awesome. :)
 

Blumlein 88

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I'd have to dis-agree with that one. There are distro's out there that require much less "messin with" than Windz.
I have installs around the community for use by seniors that can't deal with the constant problems from Doz. I do a PCLOS install for them, then just forget about it. No updates, no virus software or issues with malisous virus or malware getting installed no matter what websites they've visited, etc, etc, etc. For day to day computing it's trouble and worry free.

I concur. For relatives and friends I decide if a Chromebook or Chromebox will satisfy them. If not they get Linux. About 4 years ago I started telling those people, "like the maid, I don't do windows!" Since windows is gone things are so much calmer for everyone involved. For those who do more than web browsing and email I sometimes get asked about which software to use on Linux, and that is about it. I've installed some PCLOS or more often recently Mint for those people.

I did recently got a secdond hand Macbook for the few hardware items that aren't easy on linux. I like it pretty well. But they are just much too high for the hardware you get. The OS doesn't make up for that sufficiently. Had Apple kept up on hardware or managed to lower prices I think they would have mostly supplanted Windows for home users. Instead their recently introduced Macbook Pros caught up on hardware, but those things are $4-8k which is ridiculous for a laptop. So maybe in 3 or 4 years I could buy one second hand for $2k if I'm lucky. No thanks in advance.
 
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Sal1950

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I did recently got a secdond hand Macbook for the few hardware items that aren't easy on linux. I like it pretty well. But they are just much too high for the hardware you get. The OS doesn't make up for that sufficiently. Had Apple kept up on hardware or managed to lower prices I think they would have mostly supplanted Windows for home users. Instead their recently introduced Macbook Pros caught up on hardware, but those things are $4-8k which is ridiculous for a laptop. So maybe in 3 or 4 years I could buy one second hand for $2k if I'm lucky. No thanks in advance.
Can't speak for latest Mac OS but I am amazed at the load Win 10 presents just to boot up. You need a very powerful computer to just run a basic install of 10 and not have it be slow as molasses. There must be a ton of background processes running or some confused arse code behind the whole thing.
In the end though it looks like the days of home computing as we knew it are over. For the day to day emailing, faceplant, websurfing, etc; most now are using a telephone. Hummm, kind of a circular technology. LOL
 

Blumlein 88

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Can't speak for latest Mac OS but I am amazed at the load Win 10 presents just to boot up. You need a very powerful computer to just run a basic install of 10 and not have it be slow as molasses. There must be a ton of background processes running or some confused arse code behind the whole thing.
In the end though it looks like the days of home computing as we knew it are over. For the day to day emailing, faceplant, websurfing, etc; most now are using a telephone. Hummm, kind of a circular technology. LOL

What I thought would happen by now is a generally agreed upon wireless way for phones to interface with keyboard, mouse and good desktop monitor. If I had that, it would cover 98 or 99% of my needs for computing. Of course I can do all that via Bluetooth, and some other technologies for screen casting. But the screen casting hasn't settled on a single standard or become ubiquitous the way I had hoped it would. Phones are plenty powerful enough for most purposes if you had good ways to interface.

I wish Android would get off its a** about audio. Apple has IOS doing pretty well on that front. You could do all your recording with an Ipad and current recording boxes. Then do your more intensive mixing/processing on a linux machine at home.
 

Wombat

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I purchased a used iPad. I then had to buy overpriced 'chipped' inter-connecting devices, to get it to interact with real-world physical devices, that other OS don't require.

It sits in a drawer along with it's crappy 'not being used' battery life and excruciating recharge time(Oh, yeah, battery replacement requires return to apple for overpriced replacement service) It may be resurrected as a remote control if I get into digital streaming. Otherwise it is a 'boat-anchor'.

The Macs had an edge in graphic design and audio production in the beginning. That is long gone. I think Apple are getting out of computers as a core of their business.
 
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svart-hvitt

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There’s much deserved Apple bashing here. But on a science forum there’s one thing that’s often missing in the picture of bad Apples; a reference!

My view is that the reference (Windows, Google, Dell, Lenovo etc.) is even worse, still.

(I use Apple for private and other platforms when working).

So from that point of view I still - but less so than previously - conclude that the Apple is less sour than the reference.
 

Wombat

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There’s much deserved Apple bashing here. But on a science forum there’s one thing that’s often missing in the picture of bad Apples; a reference!

My view is that the reference (Windows, Google, Dell, Lenovo etc.) is even worse, still.

(I use Apple for private and other platforms when working).

So from that point of view I still - but less so than previously - conclude that the Apple is less sour than the reference.

But offers less freedom of choice and costs extra to boot.
shock_40_anim_gif.gif
 
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Dismayed

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All computers are over-priced, but at least there are alternatives:

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