Upgrade Denon avp A1 HD

[Ruspamen]

good evening, I have a denon avp A1 HD, the version with audyssey XT (not 32). I was thinking of replacing it but I wanted to know if there was an equally good product out there in terms of sound, technical measures. unfortunately there are no reviews on the sinad etc, so for example if I would buy a denon x-3700 using it as a pre, would I have an improvement? or is it not worth it? PS. the new encodings do not interest me, I would like to change it just to have a better product in terms of distortion,sound quality,only for blu ray uses,not in stereo

 

[Golfx]

Have you read this website’s reviews of Denon AVRs? They are the best of the bench right now.

 

[Ruspamen]

these are the measurements of my denon, do you think the denon x-3700 would represent a leap in quality compared to the AVP?

 

[Golfx]

I read through the 2008 audioholics review of your product. Very impressive. It’s SNR was around -95 db. The new denons will probably measure as good or slightly better. But I doubt you (or anyone) will hear any improvement in sound quality. But you will get updated features. If Denon updated your AVP, it would be THE preferred AVP for price.

 

[Ruspamen]

I read through the 2008 audioholics review of your product. Very impressive. It’s SNR was around -95 db. The new denons will probably measure as good or slightly better. But I doubt you (or anyone) will hear any improvement in sound quality. But you will get updated features. If Denon updated your AVP, it would be THE preferred AVP for price.

so looking at the graphs I posted, and the snr of 95db, do you think my denon still has a high audio quality? if I took a new synthesis in addition to the environmental correction, would I not perceive substantial improvements?

 

[Golfx]

You “sound” like you have a classic case of audiophile upgraditis and wish to justify a new purchase. This happens to me continuously. My wife refers to it as pieces periodically going stale and needing replacement. So I do believe your new setup would audibly measure better. But as stated before you likely won’t be able to actually hear an improvement from your equipment. But then there is a high likelihood of XT32 with app improving your room sound.

 

[peng]

so looking at the graphs I posted, and the snr of 95db, do you think my denon still has a high audio quality? if I took a new synthesis in addition to the environmental correction, would I not perceive substantial improvements?

As Breedeng mentioned, Audioholics.com reviewed the product and the reviewer Gene had the following to say about the preamp distortion at 1 V output:

With 200mVin, I set the master volume until I reached 1Vrms out of the preamp. The FFT plot was so clean that I couldn’t measure any appreciable distortion products until I ramped up the signal level to drive the output to nearly 6Vrms. At that point, I measured (15.268+ 80.424)dBv = 95.69dB or 100*alog^-1(-95.69/20) = .0002% THD + N which is among the lowest distortion I’ve ever measured in a preamp regardless of price.

But he had the decimal in the wrong place, the correct result would have been THD+N = -95.69 dB, or 0.001642% at 6 Vrms output. The AVR-X3700H should be able to match that at 2 V, may be up to 3 V but definitely not 6 V or even 4 V.

If it is in good working condition, you can use it with minidsp/Dirac instead of the almost useless Audyssey XT.

 

[Ruspamen]

As Breedeng mentioned, Audioholics.com reviewed the product and the reviewer Gene had the following to say about the preamp distortion at 1 V output:

With 200mVin, I set the master volume until I reached 1Vrms out of the preamp. The FFT plot was so clean that I couldn’t measure any appreciable distortion products until I ramped up the signal level to drive the output to nearly 6Vrms. At that point, I measured (15.268+ 80.424)dBv = 95.69dB or 100*alog^-1(-95.69/20) = .0002% THD + N which is among the lowest distortion I’ve ever measured in a preamp regardless of price.

But he had the decimal in the wrong place, the correct result would have been THD+N = -95.69 dB, or 0.001642% at 6 Vrms output. The AVR-X3700H should be able to match that at 2 V, may be up to 3 V but definitely not 6 V or even 4 V.

If it is in good working condition, you can use it with minidsp/Dirac instead of the almost useless Audyssey XT.

thanks, i didn't notice the wrong decimal, so the measurements make more sense. the denon is in good condition, which minidsp do you recommend for multichannel? Finally, on the basis of these measures, can we say that the denon is still one of the best preamps on the market today?

 

[peng]

thanks, i didn't notice the wrong decimal, so the measurements make more sense. the denon is in good condition, which minidsp do you recommend for multichannel? Finally, on the basis of these measures, can we say that the denon is still one of the best preamps on the market today?

I have not tried any of those yet. You can take a look of the following link and click on the "Dirac Series":

miniDSP Webshop | DSP solutions

Going by specs I would agree that Denon is still one of the best preamps on the market but it obviously does not have the latest DSP surround features such as Atmos, Auro3D, DTS-X/X-Pro etc.

It is probably still the only preamp/processor that can claim truly fully differential/balanced from input to output.

 

[Ruspamen]

I have not tried any of those yet. You can take a look of the following link and click on the "Dirac Series":

miniDSP Webshop | DSP solutions

Going by specs I would agree that Denon is still one of the best preamps on the market but it obviously does not have the latest DSP surround features such as Atmos, Auro3D, DTS-X/X-Pro etc.

It is probably still the only preamp/processor that can claim truly fully differential/balanced from input to output.

thanks, I will continue to hold it tight, I wanted to know, is it possible to calculate the sinad from the measures you posted earlier? to understand where it is positioned compared to other pre

 

[peng]

thanks, I will continue to hold it tight, I wanted to know, is it possible to calculate the sinad from the measures you posted earlier? to understand where it is positioned compared to other pre

There is no need to calculate because SINAD us the reciprocal of THD+N so in dB form they are numerical the same so if you remove the -ve sign from the THD+N, you get SINAD. In the Audioholics.com review, at 6 V output, THD+N was -95.69 dB, so SINAD would be 95.69 dB.

Gene said at 1 V, THD+N was so low (that means SINAD was very high), that he couldn't measure any appreciable distortion.

 

[Ruspamen]

There is no need to calculate because SINAD us the reciprocal of THD+N so in dB form they are numerical the same so if you remove the -ve sign from the THD+N, you get SINAD. In the Audioholics.com review, at 6 V output, THD+N was -95.69 dB, so SINAD would be 95.69 dB.

Gene said at 1 V, THD+N was so low (that means SINAD was very high), that he couldn't measure any appreciable distortion.

95 decibels at 6 volts is an incredible measurement, I don't imagine the 1 volt measurement, I don't think there are any better preamps out there apart from room correction. What a Monster,I'll keep it until it dies

 

[peng]

95 decibels at 6 volts is an incredible measurement, I don't imagine the 1 volt measurement, I don't think there are any better preamps out there apart from room correction. What a Monster,I'll keep it until it dies

Denon AVP-A1HDCI Measurements and Analysis | Audioholics
For the 1 V, to quote Gene directly:

With 200mVin, I set the master volume until I reached 1Vrms out of the preamp. The FFT plot was so clean that I couldn’t measure any appreciable distortion products until I ramped up the signal level to drive the output to nearly 6Vrms.

Below is the FFT pasted from the linked review, note that it shows pretty much all odd harmonics, the even harmonics were mostly cancelled out because of the fully balanced/differential from input to output topology.

 

[Ruspamen]

Denon AVP-A1HDCI Measurements and Analysis | Audioholics
For the 1 V, to quote Gene directly:



Below is the FFT pasted from the linked review, note that it shows pretty much all odd harmonics, the even harmonics were mostly cancelled out because of the fully balanced/differential from input to output topology.


View attachment 152853

but that graph is referred to 6 volts or to 1? do you think if I would connect the denon to my finals in balanced the distortion would be better? or is it the same as the RCA outputs?

 

[Dj7675]

good evening, I have a denon avp A1 HD, the version with audyssey XT (not 32). I was thinking of replacing it but I wanted to know if there was an equally good product out there in terms of sound, technical measures. unfortunately there are no reviews on the sinad etc, so for example if I would buy a denon x-3700 using it as a pre, would I have an improvement? or is it not worth it? PS. the new encodings do not interest me, I would like to change it just to have a better product in terms of distortion,sound quality,only for blu ray uses,not in stereo

The biggest benefits to an upgrade would be better room correction, EQing multiple subs, and Atmos. All of these will provide audible benefits.