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When 12 Gauge Wire is Not 12 Gauge

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amirm

amirm

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I was using some very old Monster for a long time, then it all turned GREEN !
All of my clear jacketed Monsters have done the same thing.

The one I am talking about is pre-terminated and has massive rubber outer layer on it so even if it turns green, I won't know it. :)

It looks like this:

h119Z1MT15.jpeg
 

gene_stl

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The green is caused by the poly vinyl chloride insulation leaching acid (unpolymerized vinyl chloride , very acidic) onto the copper and corroding the surface of it. I would be willing to bet that for any kind of reasonable cable length it would not make more than minor milliohms of resistance change.
 

Sal1950

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I would be willing to bet that for any kind of reasonable cable length it would not make more than minor milliohms of resistance change.
Maybe so Gene, but it sure looked like Schiit :p
 

gene_stl

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It does look disgusting. Usually the clear PVC gets yellowed too.
Ya shoulda bought Belden or Canare ( I didn't either. I have a giganto spool of el Cheepo 12 gauge which I do put ends on and tin)
It does add a slight harshness to the sound. Sort of an irritation.
 
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Sal1950

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It does look disgusting. Usually the clear PVC gets yellowed too.
Ya shoulda bought Belden or Canare
Never heard of them in 1979 ;)
 

jhaider

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All of my clear jacketed Monsters have done the same thing.

In fairness, the clear jacketed shotgun Carol stuff does the same thing. That style is terrible. The jackets can also get brittle and crack to the point of shorting.

CI style jacketed 12/2 or 14/4 is so common and cheap even from reputable brands that I see no reason to use the other kind.
 

DonH56

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The real "green" problem IMO is that Cu oxide is pretty non-conductive (unlike silver sulfide) so it is not the trivial loss in wire area and resistance along the run, it is that the oxide sneaks under connectors and causes poor connections. That is where the large rise in resistance comes from IME. Pulling and cleaning the wires, or often just loosening and retightening the connectors for some wiping action, used to be a common recommendation.
 

pseudoid

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...Is there such a thing as shielded speaker cable?...
Where would you terminate the shield to chassis/earth ground?
Years ago, my neighbor's illegally boosted CB would play thru my speakers. You could hear every word from 2 rooms away. I cannot recall if that happened with my amp powered up.
As a matter of practice, I always insert a couple ferrite beads (@speaker end), in case placebo gremlins are on the assault.

I usually source my raw speaker cables from the rummage aisle of our local WestMarine. Their 10/2 (or 10/4) AWG duplex/quad marine-grade cables are quite pliable, flat, and white PVC jacketed. Retails at $1.71/ft. Solder-terminating the ends is made easy because the stranded-wires are tinned copper.
I gave up on Monster Cables of any sort when "they" decided that consumers did not need to know AWG sizes. About a decade ago, "they" totally stopped the practice in their packaged audio wires. I've had some of their copper start growing green at both ends due to humidity/salt-air (w/i 6 years at a beach community). I think some of us still remember how their RCA connectors have chomped on hardware' bulkhead RCAs. Too many fish in that pond!
 

Hipster Doofus

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Wow…nice to have a baseline so to speak. Has anyone measured silver cables for short distances.
 

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coonmanx

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I never use 12 gauge wire because my runs are too short. Currently I am using KablelDirekt 16 gauge wire because it is very high quality OFC and it has a nice red stripe on one wire to make hookup a breeze. And it does not cost an arm an a leg...
 

Sal1950

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I never use 12 gauge wire because my runs are too short. Currently I am using KablelDirekt 16 gauge wire because it is very high quality OFC and it has a nice red stripe on one wire to make hookup a breeze.
There are a couple variables, sometimes better to be safe and use something heavier than you might think you need. In non-snake oil cable the price difference between 12 & 16 is very minor.
YMMV ;)
 

Midwest Blade

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I never use 12 gauge wire because my runs are too short. Currently I am using KablelDirekt 16 gauge wire because it is very high quality OFC and it has a nice red stripe on one wire to make hookup a breeze. And it does not cost an arm an a leg...
KablelDirekt has some of the slimmest banana plugs I have come across. Interesting company and one that does not get mentioned in the audiophile cable wars.
 

pseudoid

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The following chart shows some particulars of AWG, with respect to weight of 12AWG@20lbs. versus 16AWG@8lbs. >> a factor of 2:1.
Snag_6b507fe6.png

Copper prices have gone up from about $3.40/lbs to $4.30/lb in the last year.
Of course, you are not going to buy copper by the 1000 foot reel but the resistance difference (again for a 1000 feet) may convince you to consider to go with heavier gauge (lower # AWG)... all things considered...
 

Sal1950

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KablelDirekt has some of the slimmest banana plugs I have come across.
I was gifted a whole handful of their RCA's a few years back with a used purchase.
The plugs look very pretty but were pure junk with the leafs of the outer condutor very thin and weak.
I thru them in the garbage.
 

Nootmuskaatje

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Would I benefit anything from changing my wires to 2.5mm2 OFC? Currently using 1.5mm2 of CCA wires, about 2m to my fcr and 4-5m to my surrounds.
 

pseudoid

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Would I benefit anything from changing my wires to 2.5mm2 OFC?
Yo no hablo métricas >> when it comes to equivalents of AWG... hope someone else can assist.
 
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