Dan Clark Stealth Review (State of the Art Headphone)

[Robbo99999]

That's correct. But you didn't account for the dynamic of music and the potential of people wanting more loudness and eq. It's kinda the same situation as EX5. If someone specified driving Stealth, I wouldn't recommend it. But something that would do 3W+ into 23ohm load. In power itself it's more easy to drive than HE6. But it's very current hungry. You just normally don't see stuff that requires this much current. And you certainly don't want your amp to run very close to its current limited and especially which of it being the silicon chip itself.
That being said, if one commits using Atom and Stealth, and knowing he wouldn't use EQ or listen to highly dynamic music or simply doesn't listen very loud, it can work.

I think 113dB would be sufficient for most people, absolutely for certain in terms of my own usage and by a large amount with lots of headroom to spare. I suppose on a practical level though I'd recommend people try their existing headphone amp with the DCA Stealth first to see if gets loud enough - then if it doesn't they can buy one with more power. Those that don't have a headphone amp and are gonna buy one together with their DCA Stealth then it's probably better to err on the side of caution and go a bit overkill on the headphone amp to ensure they're buying one with enough juice.

 

[VariousArtists]

I would be comfortable with amps that can drive 5V into 16ohm/1.5W into 16ohm cleanly. Eventually it's somewhat easier than HE6 and susvara still because of less requirements in voltage swing.
Listening at lower volume also drastically reduce the requirements by a lot. But it's at the point where if you want more loudness you'd need a lot more power as well.

Is the EX5 sufficient to drive it with adequate headroom? Asking specifically about the EX5 as I am sure all your higher end amps can drive it with ease.

Edit: ignore me, just saw your earlier comment about the EX5

 

[preload]

Looks like I'm going to have to swap out the opamp in my cmoy with something beefier.

 

[solderdude]

@Robbo99999 You may have mist my point regarding what's beefy enough:

L30 more is enough so you don't need a speaker amp unless one wants to touch the magic 120dB SPL peak without any distortion

 

[Robbo99999]

@Robbo99999 You may have mist my point regarding what's beefy enough:

Oh yeah, Topping L30 does the same 1W into 33ohm for example as the JDS Labs Atom:

 

[muslhead]

anyone with an understanding of the RME ADI2 FS with almost 3watts balanced spec know if it will do the Stealths justice?
In technical parlance ... is it "beefy" enough?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Oh yeah, Topping L30 does the same 1W into 33ohm for example as the JDS Labs Atom:
View attachment 151113
View attachment 151114

That's different. L30 never clips in the test. For lower impedance load it will provide more power where Atom will have less power with lower impedance load. In some cases you might have to turn L30 all the way up but it's never near the limit of L30. It can drive 3.5W into 16Ohm from the circuit standpoint. Turning it all the way up does not nearly stress the amp. The silicon can output 1A continuous current.

Basically the power of L30 is gain limited, Atom's power is current limited. You don't want to use an amp near it current limit.

 

[MC_RME]

anyone with an understanding of the RME ADI2 FS with almost 3watts balanced spec know if it will do the Stealths justice?
In technical parlance ... is it "beefy" enough?

You mean ADI-2 Pro. And yes, no problem.

 

[ShiZo]

You mean ADI-2 Pro. And yes, no problem.

Do you have a chart of the power? I noticed only the dac portion is reviewed here. Is the pro the exact same thing as the dac version but with an adc and balanced headphone amp?

 

[solderdude]

@Robbo99999

Here's an example from another thread.

AKG K702 Sensitivity: 103.60 dB/V and 91.63 dB/mW SPL by power

Sound Blaster G3 Amp Power:
Low Gain: 16–63Ω (0.235V rms @ 16Ω, 0.41V rms @ 32Ω)
High Gain: 64–300Ω (0.64V rms @ 64Ω, 0.94V rms @ 150Ω, 1.145V rms @ 300Ω)
Dynamic Range (DNR): 100 dB

The conclusion is that the K702, on high gain can reach almost 100dB peaks which would be enough for normal to somewhat loud listening levels.
Stealth, however, would only reach 0.36V = 90dB SPL peak.
Current limiter issue.... despite the output being capable of delivering 1.15V

 

[ifloatoveryou]

If Amir ever gets to test the Aeon 2 Noire, I would be very curious about a blind test with the Stealth to see if he could notice a difference between them, seeing as they measure fairly similarly. I think a blind test of he listens to headphones AA, BB, and AB in a random order and tries to guess which one is AB. For the pair he guesses to be AB, he writes his impressions and guesses which headphone is which.

I would guess he wouldn't be able to distinguish which pair is AB from sound alone, but this is just a guess I have little confidence in. The stealth is 415 grams and the Aeon 2 Noire is 328, for this reason a blind test may not be possible, unless both headphones feel very similar and the tester deliberately does not pay attention to weight. There are other issues such as volume matching, getting the appropriate dacs and amps, creating a scenario close to a double blind test, and of course guessing randomly will correctly identify the headphones ~17% of the time.

This would be an annoying test to set up for a somewhat meaningless result, but I do think it would be interesting nonetheless.

 

[Robbo99999]

That's different. L30 never clips in the test. For lower impedance load it will provide more power where Atom will have less power with lower impedance load. In some cases you might have to turn L30 all the way up but it's never near the limit of L30. It can drive 3.5W into 16Ohm from the circuit standpoint. Turning it all the way up does not nearly stress the amp. The silicon can output 1A continuous current.

Basically the power of L30 is gain limited, Atom's power is current limited. You don't want to use an amp near it current limit.

Yes, I remember reading recently in the L30 thread that this is one reason why the L30 can rely on an intended DAC input of up to 3.5V (IIRC). But yes, I see the distinction you're making....but on a practical level with 2V input both JDS Labs Atom and L30 can drive 1W into a 33 ohm load which is the limit of each device in that situation - above 1W the JDS Labs Atom clips whereas the L30 just reaches it max at 1W. Am I right in assuming that would mean with an equal 2V input that L30 and JDS Labs Atom would drive the 23ohm of the DCA Stealth to the same levels? Either way, on a practical level we agreed JDS Labs Atom could drive 113dB into DCA Stealth which is really plenty for most people, and my previous advice still stands that people should just test if their existing headphone amp drives the DCA Stealth to loud enough levels before deciding to upgrade to a more powerful headphone amp. I suppose the caveat to my last sentence, it would help if people knew if their amp has potential to clip at higher loads so as to prevent getting into that territory, but I expect that as long as people aren't having to run their headphone amp close to max on their volume dial then they're likely free from clipping problems and clipping problems in amps would be clearly audible & evident?

 

[Robbo99999]

@Robbo99999

Here's an example from another thread.

AKG K702 Sensitivity: 103.60 dB/V and 91.63 dB/mW SPL by power

Sound Blaster G3 Amp Power:
Low Gain: 16–63Ω (0.235V rms @ 16Ω, 0.41V rms @ 32Ω)
High Gain: 64–300Ω (0.64V rms @ 64Ω, 0.94V rms @ 150Ω, 1.145V rms @ 300Ω)
Dynamic Range (DNR): 100 dB

The conclusion is that the K702, on high gain can reach almost 100dB peaks which would be enough for normal to somewhat loud listening levels.
Stealth, however, would only reach 0.36V = 90dB SPL peak.
Current limiter issue.... despite the output being capable of delivering 1.15V

That G3 is pretty underpowered in terms of current then, especially for the DCA Stealth - that would barely be even enough power for my listening levels, I worked out 86dB as my max so that's right on the limit.

 

[muslhead]

If Amir ever gets to test the Aeon 2 Noire, I would be very curious about a blind test with the Stealth to see if he could notice a difference between them, seeing as they measure fairly similarly. I think a blind test of he listens to headphones AA, BB, and AB in a random order and tries to guess which one is AB. For the pair he guesses to be AB, he writes his impressions and guesses which headphone is which.

I would guess he wouldn't be able to distinguish which pair is AB from sound alone, but this is just a guess I have little confidence in. The stealth is 415 grams and the Aeon 2 Noire is 328, for this reason a blind test may not be possible, unless both headphones feel very similar and the tester deliberately does not pay attention to weight. There are other issues such as volume matching, getting the appropriate dacs and amps, creating a scenario close to a double blind test, and of course guessing randomly will correctly identify the headphones ~17% of the time.

This would be an annoying test to set up for a somewhat meaningless result, but I do think it would be interesting nonetheless.

How does a tester deliberately not pay attention to weight?

 

[sifi36]

How does a tester deliberately not pay attention to weight?

By adding ballast to the cups this might be a surmountable challenge, seeing as the headband and strap are near identical.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Yes, I remember reading recently in the L30 thread that this is one reason why the L30 can rely on an intended DAC input of up to 3.5V (IIRC). But yes, I see the distinction you're making....but on a practical level with 2V input both JDS Labs Atom and L30 can drive 1W into a 33 ohm load which is the limit of each device in that situation - above 1W the JDS Labs Atom clips whereas the L30 just reaches it max at 1W. Am I right in assuming that would mean with an equal 2V input that L30 and JDS Labs Atom would drive the 23ohm of the DCA Stealth to the same levels? Either way, on a practical level we agreed JDS Labs Atom could drive 113dB into DCA Stealth which is really plenty for most people, and my previous advice still stands that people should just test if their existing headphone amp drives the DCA Stealth to loud enough levels before deciding to upgrade to a more powerful headphone amp. I suppose the caveat to my last sentence, it would help if people knew if their amp has potential to clip at higher loads so as to prevent getting into that territory, but I expect that as long as people aren't having to run their headphone amp close to max on their volume dial then they're likely free from clipping problems and clipping problems in amps would be clearly audible & evident?

L30 will output about twice as much power as Atom at 23Ohm with 2V in.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

If Amir ever gets to test the Aeon 2 Noire, I would be very curious about a blind test with the Stealth to see if he could notice a difference between them, seeing as they measure fairly similarly.

For my taste the Aeon 2 Noire is too bright without eq. I hope the treble will be noticeable more smooth with the Stealth. However, I would be very interested in the comparison of Stealth without EQ vs. A2N with EQ. I will try it out myself with my Qudelix as soon as the Stealth can be tested somewhere here in Germany.

 

[Robbo99999]

L30 will output about twice as much power as Atom at 23Ohm with 2V in.

Right, I see, so that's in line with what you said in your previous post about L30 being able to offer up 1A continuous current whereas JDS Labs Atom is less than that - and in the 33ohm example I linked earlier (where their capabilities were equal re 2V input) the L30 was voltage limited (input voltage which would be helped by inputting more than 2V into the amp from the DAC) and not current limited, whereas the JDS Labs Atom was current limited in the 33ohm example. Well it's good to understand these things.

 

[Galfridus]

Amir, do you think you compromised your measurements by listening first? Would it be even better to not know which headphones you're measuring, to eliminate any bais? Thanks

 

[tifune]

@Robbo99999

Here's an example from another thread.

AKG K702 Sensitivity: 103.60 dB/V and 91.63 dB/mW SPL by power

Sound Blaster G3 Amp Power:
Low Gain: 16–63Ω (0.235V rms @ 16Ω, 0.41V rms @ 32Ω)
High Gain: 64–300Ω (0.64V rms @ 64Ω, 0.94V rms @ 150Ω, 1.145V rms @ 300Ω)
Dynamic Range (DNR): 100 dB

The conclusion is that the K702, on high gain can reach almost 100dB peaks which would be enough for normal to somewhat loud listening levels.
Stealth, however, would only reach 0.36V = 90dB SPL peak.
Current limiter issue.... despite the output being capable of delivering 1.15V

For someone struggling with this material, is there a simple test one can do to determine if their equipment can push enough current? For example, I ordered the Stealth intending to use it with my E1DA 9038S Gen2. If the volume stays the same from 60-100 (arbitrary), is that current limit being hit at 60?

i use headphones exclusively with my phone, no exceptions. I'm fine w buying a portable amp but really prefer dongles.