Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

[Labjr]

Yeah, I wonder what's coming next! The E50 is a day old already!

 

[daftcombo]

We need a Topping X ASR DAC with a golfing panther on top of the unit.

 

[drplinker]

Impressive measurements. However, since Topping is releasing new product every month or sooner, I am unable to make up my mind on whether to wait for next one or buy one.

IMO too many models too soon from Topping, almost feels like same stuff repackaged in different case (same exact remote control, similar config options & steps).

About price - I wouldn't call $269 DAC dirt cheap, or more likely I don't belong to community which thinks performance is proportional to price and $4000 DAC, $10K+ for speakers are norms. Sometimes I am glad that such companies selling $800 cables etc and taking $$$ away from rich snobs, and wish I could sell similar stuff.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

my setup would be some version of Minidsp -going-> D30Pro Coax

I think the MiniDSP 2x4 HD will hurt the sound quality a lot compared to that D30Pro. Check out the measurements on it.

 

[testp]

I think the MiniDSP 2x4 HD will hurt the sound quality a lot compared to that D30Pro. Check out the measurements on it.

no amm, i was looking something like shd studio or ddrc-22d perhaps...

actually looking at it (Minidsp 2x4HD) looks to be the same performance to ddrc-22d... (internal processing 32 bit/ 92 Khz), - this has analog outs only

 

[bequietjk]

It's all showboating from here

 

[Thomas_A]

Is there any Topping DAC with polarity switch?

 

[Anmol]

is there a specific reason that ASR reviews disproportionately large number of topping products? Is it because topping produces objectively great products or simply because vendor is more engaged and responsive to ASR vs other vendors or Is it because of higher number of requests from ASR members for topping product reviews ?

 

[amirm]

@amirm Wishing that you had affinity for a display color other than amber. Amber displays remind me of my first computer with 300 baud modem and floppy disks. Romantic times but the flashbacks to late night coding and short project deadlines puts me off. If you could say you like a different color then maybe Topping would make some changes. Maybe voice liking user selected display colors like on RME ADI or ability for end user to turn the display off.

The problem I have with other colors like green and red is that they represent all we could do with colors in those ancient times. Blue is tough to look at. I am OK with white if it can have a dimmer.

 

[amirm]

is there a specific reason that ASR reviews disproportionately large number of topping products?

I review what gets sent to me from companies and members. And a few I buy myself. If you look at all the reviews I do, Topping is a small fraction. If you mean DACs and headphone amps, Topping sends me everything they build. Other companies do not to the same extent. So really nothing I have control over.

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Johnyang1997, out of curiosity..do you listen all these Topping devices and make some kind of comparisons? For example d90se and this? Is there something extra in d90se sound that justifies the price or is it all features?

 

[testp]

@amirm Wishing that you had affinity for a display color other than amber. Amber displays remind me of my first computer with 300 baud modem and floppy disks. Romantic times but the flashbacks to late night coding and short project deadlines puts me off. If you could say you like a different color then maybe Topping would make some changes. Maybe voice liking user selected display colors like on RME ADI or ability for end user to turn the display off.

i am a huge fan of orange as well, but Loxije has menu option for 4-5 colors to choose from, so yeah menu option would cater many...

 

[testp]

We need a Topping X ASR DAC with a golfing panther on top of the unit.

...and it should improve performance as well !!!

 

[eboleyn]

You can already listen to 24 bit music for decades. You don't need true 24 bit resolution for that. You can't hear -120 dB signals in music anyway (if it could be recorded in real life situations anyway).

It's not like you could ever hear the difference between -120dB and -140dB distortion and noise anyway.
The improvements are only technical improvements by chip manufacturers and designers making improvements on the borders of what's technically possible.

There's been a lot of replies to this, but I figured I'd reply to the start, since they are all generally agreeing with this point (that I could tell).

I will have to respectfully disagree with the implication that all this climb to extreme fidelity has no value.

Specifically, the presumption in the above statements are that the audio range you're using when you talk about "-120db" is matched so that the maximum represents the human maximum hearing. That is almost never the case in real audio chains.

Historically, before I got wise to the issue of matching dynamic ranges to the effective ranges of the audio hardware I was using, there were times (I found out later) where I had been giving up on the order of 65-70 db or so of the upper part of the range due to my enjoyment of listening to quiet music (gain in various audio stages, powerful amps, sensitive speakers, the maximum range of the music being played, etc.), and got lackluster results accordingly. So a device with say even 100db+ of dynamic range might end up only with ~35db or so left above the noise floor before hitting the absolute bottom, and other distortions that typically happen when you get near the bottom of the operating range. I'd had it happen both with DACs and with even pure analog preamps.

In summary, while I will agree that for recordings, 16-ish bits/44.1khz is plenty (given it was recorded to set the proper dynamic range for human hearing), the problem is that when your DAC outputs it, matching the effective range either requires manual matching (like using passive resistors or a very good high dynamic range analog preamp), or you end up giving up digital active range due to unused headroom.

That's why I think so many random people claim that the newer crazy-accurate DACs "sound noticeably better", it's that they often have sloppy audio setups where those dynamic ranges are not carefully managed.

Anyway, I'm happy with the progress that's been made, as it brings high fidelity even to the audio-chain-lazy masses!

 

[fatoldgit]

@JohnYang1997

Given this has 5VDC in, does this mean I can use a "data only" USB cable and avoid PC based power noise... or does the DAC need to see the USB 5VDC to "wake up"

Thanks,

Peter

 

[mk1classic]

Can @JohnYang1997 or anyone else confirm if the COAX input is async or does it have a fix "time offset"? I see the possibility to use two or more with SHD Studio or another USB to multichannel COAX output unit for multi-channel active speaker setup.

 

[Labjr]

Can @JohnYang1997 or anyone else confirm if the COAX input is async or does it have a fix "time offset"? I see the possibility to use two or more with SHD Studio or another USB to multichannel COAX output unit for multi-channel active speaker setup.

I don't believe S/PDIF can be Async like USB.

 

[gvl]

Can @JohnYang1997 or anyone else confirm if the COAX input is async or does it have a fix "time offset"? I see the possibility to use two or more with SHD Studio or another USB to multichannel COAX output unit for multi-channel active speaker setup.

ESS chips run internal ASRC, I suspect it's not defeatable in this implementation. That said, I don't know if that alone is a reason you can't use these in a multichannel setup as the timing differences are likely very small between devices.

 

[Rottmannash]

Why would you want to compare the chip instead of the performance of the final product?

Curiosity. I know it doesn't really matter but don't we all here measurebate over specs?

 

[Budgeter]

I wonder if we can get a higher quality version of the SINAD bar chart. Or at least, have a pictures including only great, only good, etc. As of now, the picture is practically too small to zoom in already.
The review index is not updated in real time, so that bar chart would be better to keep track of what was reviewed.