Upgrade path from a Denon AVR-X3600H?

[Head_Unit]

...which is currently driving Focal 936/CC900/SR900, plus an SVS SB-2000 Pro. Upgrading the speakers, or going to Atmos, or adding another sub...those are under consideration but that's a different thread.

The question here is what might give better sound. I don't believe measurements are all however as an engineer I would want an even lower noise floor. AND still have room correction, Audyssey or Dirac or there's another I forget. Source is basically an Oppo UDP-203, and sometimes AirPlay. So far no surround from Netflix etc as there's not a connection from the display.*
- Are there any pre/pros really better than what is in the -3600 (given a desire for room corection and AirPlay)?
- I know you can turn off the L/R internal amp. I know you cannot turn them off individually in pairs. Can you turn them ALL off?
- Amp, again would want a lower noise floor. Want Class D/G/H due to one circuit, cuz I would think to upgrade for more power just to have more headroom.
- 5-channel amp might be cool...though if using the 3600 as a preamp a 3-channel really seems sufficient to me. Nominations? Those ATI and Monoprice Monolith I read good things, but back to Class AB efficiency and eh somehow it would be interesting to try something different. And not humongous. Oh and heat in the cabinet.
- Budget, I dunno. $5k for an amp? Not too fixed really. What high-end amp companies are making 3/5 channel amps?

*hmmm, isn't there an ARC connection? I gotta pull out the cabinet and look again!
​

 

[abdo123]

you forgot the most important thing, the budget $$$$.

 

[Golfx]

I’m quite happy with three March p701 monoblocks for LCR. These are hypex ncore1200s and provide 700w at 4ohms. Believe they were around $1500 each. Run very cool. I also have Nord 8 channel using the ncore252 modules driving my surrounds and atmos. These provide 250w at 4ohms each. I believe this was around $2000. This also runs very cool. America assembled comparable ATIs were out of stock AND easily three times the costs and weight.
All new Denons have preamp mode which disconnects the internal amps. Denon A110 and 8500h allow to disconnect each amp individually or all at once using pre amp mode.

 

[Head_Unit]

you forgot the most important thing, the budget $$$$.

" Budget, I dunno. $5k for an amp? Not too fixed really"

 

[peng]

" Budget, I dunno. $5k for an amp? Not too fixed really"

That's a great budget. Then i would say do it right, get a couple of AHB2 and you will be good for a long time.

 

[Magnus0322]

...which is currently driving Focal 936/CC900/SR900, plus an SVS SB-2000 Pro. Upgrading the speakers, or going to Atmos, or adding another sub...those are under consideration but that's a different thread.​

​

The question here is what might give better sound. I don't believe measurements are all however as an engineer I would want an even lower noise floor. AND still have room correction, Audyssey or Dirac or there's another I forget. Source is basically an Oppo UDP-203, and sometimes AirPlay. So far no surround from Netflix etc as there's not a connection from the display.*​

- Are there any pre/pros really better than what is in the -3600 (given a desire for room corection and AirPlay)?​

- I know you can turn off the L/R internal amp. I know you cannot turn them off individually in pairs. Can you turn them ALL off?​

- Amp, again would want a lower noise floor. Want Class D/G/H due to one circuit, cuz I would think to upgrade for more power just to have more headroom.​

- 5-channel amp might be cool...though if using the 3600 as a preamp a 3-channel really seems sufficient to me. Nominations? Those ATI and Monoprice Monolith I read good things, but back to Class AB efficiency and eh somehow it would be interesting to try something different. And not humongous. Oh and heat in the cabinet.​

- Budget, I dunno. $5k for an amp? Not too fixed really. What high-end amp companies are making 3/5 channel amps?​

​

*hmmm, isn't there an ARC connection? I gotta pull out the cabinet and look again!​

​

How big is your space? You shouldn't be anywhere close to taxing you AVR. With that kind of budget I'd get a second subwoofer or even higher performing subs especially for home theater. MiniDSP + UMIK-1 and REW for setting up the subs and getting the best sound from them. The speakers and sub will have a larger effect in the sound than upgrading the amps unless you listen so loud you are already reaching the limits of your system

 

[Beershaun]

Would switching the AVR settings between a 2.1 channel stereo configuration and the OPs current multi channel surround settings give them a sense for what more power would do to his system? I know for mine the stereo configuration in my Denon is significantly louder for my mains than the surround because the power available to the mains is greater.

 

[Trouble Maker]

...but that's a different thread.

Not really, you need to ask the Why before the What. Otherwise it's like throwing darts at an ocean and expecting to write a book from the effort.

But finally it's your money, spend it how you want to.

 

[GXAlan]

1- Make sure you have ARC. Streaming stuff like VUDU will do DD+ with Atmos. Using optical out is nonsense.
2- +1 for the AHB2 if noisefloor is your concern.
3- Look up Ratbuddyssey for tuning the XT32. Combining this with REW/calibrated MIC, you can hand-tune your EQ
Announcing ratbuddyssey - a tool for tweaking Audyssey MultEQ app files | AVS Forum
4- for movies, you can never have enough subwoofers.
5- Only the X3700/X4700 lets you turn off all of the amps.

 

[Rottmannash]

Check out ASR member @Buckeye Amps main page. He assembles and sells many configurations of NCore amp modules at a great price. 2 ch, 3 ch, 5 ch, etc.

 

[Head_Unit]

How big is your space?

Pretty big since everything is open. Yeah probably another sub, maybe change the mains. Maybe move the 936 to rear channels (but due to slab construction and layout the wiring would be a huge problem). Anyway that's all for another thread, here I'm focused on pre/pro and amp.

 

[Head_Unit]

Otherwise it's like throwing darts at an ocean and expecting to write a book from the effort.

That's on my calendar for next Tuesday
Yeah sub and speakers under consideration, but that's a different subject that will take longer to consider due to layout and wiring as noted.

 

[Beershaun]

Are you using the DAC in the OPPO or the Denon? If using the Denon try switching to using the OPPO and run all analog cables to the Denon. that should yield you lower noise and distortion for your DAC section to test that impact.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-of-oppo-udp-205-uhd-player.3660/

 

[Trouble Maker]

That's on my calendar for next Tuesday

Just drink some good beer or wine during and it will be a nice productive day!

 

[FrantzM]

@Head_Unit

I am one of those SINAD chaser, so in the days I would have advised for the AHB2, too...
Today, I am no longer sure this would bring you much... Thinking a bit more about it? Certain, you won't get much.

The upgrade path I would have taken and advised: Add two more subs. It is not a simple endeavor. As a matter of fact, it is very complicated, time-consuming and maddening. The results , however are worth the immense inconveniences. With 2 or more subwoofers and a DSP unit for helpong the integration, you can off-load the mains from the reproduction of low-bass. Most speakers improve dramatically, they even objectively, play louder once relieved from the lows, while producing less distortion in the rest of the spectrum.

What has become clear to me. The upgrade from a good AVR such as the 3600 is not , yet, cost-effective. By adding an external amp, you would get a few dBs but processing, and more importantly room correction will not be a clear win. There exist a few products that would take you there but those Pre/Pro are in the $15,000 and up range (Storm, Trinnov, etc) . Much has been said about the Monoprice HTP-1 but it seems to be a "released Beta" not a finish product...
Something else to consider: There are people that can guide you into the integration of the subs and or room correction, for a fee. The cost of those services plus pair of subs + a DSP unit ( miniDSP 2 x 4 HD comes to my mind) would fit within your budget.

Peace

 

[Head_Unit]

two more subs

oh probably, though whether another SVS SB-2000 Pro or something even beefier, who knows. IIRC the AVR-X3600H can integrate two...but that's a different topic. One thing we're kind of curious about is we read Dirac is even better than Audyssey; it would be interesting to have a processor with that.

Yes it seems difficult to improve on using something like the -3600 as a processor. We heard a couple personal testimonials about the Marantz AV7706, but nobody has actually measured it that I can find. The previous AV7705 is no improvement at least from raw measurements, which doesn't necessarily preclude it might sound better. As I'm always saying, a good return policy is key I guess.

Maximum listening level is maybe 85 on the -3600 volume settings, so I'm going to see how much output voltage that is by disconnecting the speakers and playing a test tone with a good AC voltmeter attached. I don't know why I didn't think of that before-it will give some idea if we're anywhere near clipping or not.

The AHB2 sure seems like a "benchmark" ha ha though 5 channels of that is $9k...possible but hmmmmmm. Wish they made a 3-channel!! Anyone wanting that, we should write them...

 

[Beershaun]

Saw this video panel Gene from audioholics hosted as part of CEDIA. Its very much about what we are discussing here. It gets into what you want to target at a home theater listening position and working back to your equipment requirements taking into account different room sizes.

Sean Olive is one of the panel members and the presenter is a home theater installer/designer.

It's long but really good info.

 

[Head_Unit]

try switching to using the OPPO and run all analog cables to the Denon.

I was going to say that then there is no bass management, though actually the Oppo can do that IIRC. However then there would be no Audyssey, which quite noticeably smoothens the bass response is a difficult setting (one speaker in a corner, the other against a wall but wide open on both sides.

 

[Head_Unit]

Meanwhile the current story is an ATI 5-channel class D, whatever that model number is. Plus an Integra 60.4 tossed in for a modest price bump, gonna try that XLR balanced. A true A/B comparison won't be possible since of course it won't be blind, and also the Denon AVR-X3600H has been tweaked with the Audyssey App to remove their midrange notch, plus a gentle 1 dB upper mid boost.

 

[peng]

Meanwhile the current story is an ATI 5-channel class D, whatever that model number is. Plus an Integra 60.4 tossed in for a modest price bump, gonna try that XLR balanced. A true A/B comparison won't be possible since of course it won't be blind, and also the Denon AVR-X3600H has been tweaked with the Audyssey App to remove their midrange notch, plus a gentle 1 dB upper mid boost.

Are you still using the X3600H? It does not have balanced output so I am not sure what you meant by "gonna try that XLR balanced". Please clarify..