• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Cheap NOS/R2R/Multibit DACs that are audibly different

curiouspeter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
623
Likes
396
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Just wondering if I should get one as a toy.

I recently got a Gustard X16 and it is awesome! (Thanks Amir! I would not know about this brand otherwise.) I will use it for the majority of my listening.

However, I suppose it may be fun to have another DAC that sounds very different. I still have free RCA inputs on my amp and Pi/RoPieee can drive multiple USB devices. Anything fun that is cheap? Or are they all so coveted by audiophiles that I will have to pay snake-oil money (which I won't)?
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Just wondering if I should get one as a toy.

I recently got a Gustard X16 and it is awesome! (Thanks Amir! I would not know about this brand otherwise.) I will use it for the majority of my listening.

However, I suppose it may be fun to have another DAC that sounds very different. I still have free RCA inputs on my amp and Pi/RoPieee can drive multiple USB devices. Anything fun that is cheap? Or are they all so coveted by audiophiles that I will have to pay snake-oil money (which I won't)?

The Gustard has XLR and RCA out? Using the XLR into the amp but nothing out from the RCA? Get a tube buffer . A bit like this https://www.onbuy.com/gb/black-fx-a...iW7wWnGZp_iu-58-vu8aAqeTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

or cheaper. Plug your RCA out of DAC into this , then RCA out to amp. Have about as much impact on the sound as a cheap high distortion DAC.
 
OP
curiouspeter

curiouspeter

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
623
Likes
396
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
66
Likes
55
I think I will dare to say this (nervously) but I have found a number of multibit/R2R DACs to sound different, and in my opinion better, than more common delta sigma DACs, even though they do not test as well in objective terms.

I have been at this comparison for a number of months in earnest and I am starting to get a sense for why but I am not ready today to post a lot about it. For NOS or plain old DACs, I think Yamaha's YAC514 chip (or YAV514-F is the correct model?) is still excellent at making things sound more real although I've been testing it with Yamaha's post-chip filtering stage which is quite good and that makes a big difference as well. That chip measures pretty well which surprises me. I don't know of a finished product you can buy with that chip at the moment. I am using bits (no pun intended) from one of their very best late 1990s CD changers.

I hesitate to say this here, but this particular low priced Multibit DAC from a certain US maker and also this Pegasus DAC do sound so different from my other DACs. And in a good way. I do think it is worth experimenting to see. A lot of things we measure are not necessarily audible or prominent to our hearing and so much music that is recorded and available digitally has constrained dynamic range and is not even taking advantage of the full 16 or 24 or 32 or XX bits available. You can paint an elephant any color you want but it's still an elephant and the gear used in recording over the years and the gear to mix and master only had so much resolution and fidelity on tap.

Another different DAC to try is the Chord Mojo which is priced pretty well considering it's uniqueness. It has a different and wonderful sound to my ears although I am not as thrilled with the connectivity but it is also meant to do double duty as a portable device.

My personal DAC experiments continue, much to the chagrin of my close relatives, but every time I am startled for a moment by the realism of listening to a bit of music, where my headphones and speakers totally disappear, I am intrigued. Some of these different designs do make some things sound more realistic. Yes, it could be filter strategies but so far I do not think that is what is going on based on my personal experiments.

And I will go out on (another) limb to say that headphones and speakers that are brighter than what I personally consider neutral are more common than I would like, and through the lens, so to speak, of those brighter than neutral devices, I think the differences between the DACs I am mentioning and more common delta sigma DAC designs are a bit less obvious to detect.

For example, a lot of people online (aside from here) somehow think MartinLogan Motion 4i Bookshelf Speaker is a decent bookshelf speaker. I agree that the fit and finish is amazing, but I had a run at those charming little toys at one point on looks alone and harsh, bright, brittle and fatiguing only begins to describe them and you need to have more neutral speakers for critical listening. Likewise, I am a Grado fan but you need to be able to admit some of the Grados that are so popular, like the Grado sr80e Prestige Headphones are just not neutral. A lot of folks don't have the luxury of many headphones and speakers to use for critical listening, so keep your end stage (spekaers/headphones) in mind when you compare these DACs.
 
Last edited:

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
1,628
Likes
1,206
Im going to wait till manufacturers like topping, smsl , Gustard release a R2R DAC like the denafrips Ares.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Im going to wait till manufacturers like topping, smsl , Gustard release a R2R DAC like the denafrips Ares.
You'll be waiting a long time I fear.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,524
Likes
37,057
I've not heard one, but you could try one of those Soekris dacs. Amir has reviewed at least one here.
 

JWAmerica

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2021
Messages
299
Likes
194
You should try to audition the Denafrips Ares II. I think you may like it more than then Gustard.
 

Snoopy

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
1,628
Likes
1,206
The musician Draco is a relatively cheap R2R DACs.

Seems to be a downsized version of the Pegasus.

(16 bit and cheaper parts?)
 

gvl

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Messages
3,427
Likes
3,981
Location
SoCal
There was the Airist R2R contraption, don’t know if you can still get it new. See if you can find a Starting Point Systems DAC3, it sounds different guaranteed, USB doesn’t work on Linux though and probably on MacOS too.
 
Top Bottom