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Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

FireLion

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I remember asking Topping support about this a few years ago, so I could plonk it on this big fella.
I like it as it's using a similar design with those angles on the edges, the D10s was nicer than the original with noticeable improvements to the sound.

1628263404347.png


Have a Burson v5i in the D10s and two V6 Classics in the HAP-3B.
 

Grooved

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Asio is your friend
but someone in the case we are talking about (sending signal from motherboard SPDIF ouput) can't use ASIO with Foobar (or any other player)...

P.S. I don't have any problem to fix, I just used one of my computer with Windows 7 to show that some can't output 88.2 and 176.4 with standard settings on Foobar, WASAPI (it refuses to play) or ASIO (not available for this ouput) on their motherboard SPDIF output, I don't need to fix on this computer as I don't use it for this kind of tasks

To avoid people answering out of context, the context is this post :
Hi, my speaker is dali zensor 5ax, if i buy d10 balanced model, can i connect it as balanced to the 3.5mm input on the back of the speaker?
and he has an optical input with built-in DAC in the speaker (also limited to 24/96)
 
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maty

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For completeness, as pictured above, I tried the TS-RCA to convert the balanced output to a single-ended signal. While the oscilloscope tracings above look fine, have a look at what happened using the high resolution THD+N graph:
Topping D10B - THD+N L - TS-RCA Adaptor.png


[ Clearly, there is a significant increase in distortion if we use a simple converter adaptor that ties the sleeve and ring connections. Notice that I showed the -3dBFS FFT just to make sure the extra distortions are not due to clipping (basically no difference between 0dBFS and -3dBFS). Realize though that a THD+N of around -85dB actually still sounds good even if far from optimal for this DAC. Consider that this is still a better THD+N than the SMSL SA300 desktop amplifier I use. Again, a reminder of just how much resolution DACs have these days compared to the rest of the audio reproduction chain!

Yes. Follow the Topping warning and avoid simple balanced-to-single-ended converters like this. ]
 

Veri

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For completeness, as pictured above, I tried the TS-RCA to convert the balanced output to a single-ended signal. While the oscilloscope tracings above look fine, have a look at what happened using the high resolution THD+N graph:
View attachment 147585

[ Clearly, there is a significant increase in distortion if we use a simple converter adaptor that ties the sleeve and ring connections. Notice that I showed the -3dBFS FFT just to make sure the extra distortions are not due to clipping (basically no difference between 0dBFS and -3dBFS). Realize though that a THD+N of around -85dB actually still sounds good even if far from optimal for this DAC. Consider that this is still a better THD+N than the SMSL SA300 desktop amplifier I use. Again, a reminder of just how much resolution DACs have these days compared to the rest of the audio reproduction chain!

Yes. Follow the Topping warning and avoid simple balanced-to-single-ended converters like this. ]
Good proof to not short balanced to single ended :)
 

phoenixsong

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Yeah I was reading that review too, thinking "might as well get a D10s for single-ended use"
 

miofu

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Clearly, there is a significant increase in distortion if we use a simple converter adaptor that ties the sleeve and ring connections.

If you used adapter that shorts ring with sleeve, then it is adapter for cross-coupled outputs.
In case D10 balanced you probably should use adapter where ring is not connected at all.

Edit: I thought maty you are author of this review...
 
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Grooved

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If you used adapter that shorts ring with sleeve, then it is adapter for cross-coupled outputs.
In case D10 balanced you probably use adapter where ring is not connected at all.

It's what Archimago used during his test, and yes, it was TS so ring linked with sleeve.
TRS and ring not connected is how the Tone2 Pro works, balanced with the three contacts, or unbalanced with tip and sleeve only (but using their special balanced RCA intead of TRS like on the D10b)
If I'm not wrong, it gets -118 SINAD in balanced, and -112 in unbalanced

Would have been interesting to see the results of the D10b with this TRS without ring to see if it works the same, but I understand the warning as one can use the wrong adaptor so easily.
 
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miofu

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It's what Archimago used during his test, and yes, it was TS so ring linked with sleeve.
TRS and ring not connected is how the Tone2 Pro works, balanced with the three contacts, or unbalanced with tip and sleeve only (but using their special balanced RCA intead of TRS like on the D10b)
If I'm not wrong, it gets -118 SINAD in balanced, and -112 in unbalanced

Would have been interesting to see the results with this TRS without ring to see if it works the same, but I understand the warning as one can use the wrong adaptor so easily.

You are right, we can see this here:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Bhaf7uAp...HQ/s1600/Topping+D10B+-+Rear+with+TSR-RCA.jpg

It would be great to see measurements without ring connected. I hope we can count on Archimago. :)
 

JohnYang1997

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JohnYang1997

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It's what Archimago used during his test, and yes, it was TS so ring linked with sleeve.
TRS and ring not connected is how the Tone2 Pro works, balanced with the three contacts, or unbalanced with tip and sleeve only (but using their special balanced RCA intead of TRS like on the D10b)
If I'm not wrong, it gets -118 SINAD in balanced, and -112 in unbalanced

Would have been interesting to see the results with this TRS without ring to see if it works the same, but I understand the warning as one can use the wrong adaptor so easily.
Still won't work as intended. You will encounter tens of millivolts of DC and/or loud clicks and pops when switching sampling frequency. So don't.
 

Toku

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Grooved

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This conversion adapter is the worst. If you still want to try it, do it at your own risk. As a result, if D10b breaks, don't hold Topping accountable.

I don't think that Archimago would have blamed Topping for that, and he specify it to be sure that other people would not blame Topping too.
 

usern

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I would be more worried about expensive headphones and / or amplifier failure when using unbalanced signal cable conversion than relatively low priced D10B
 
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Zek

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The D10b is not designed to work with headphones.
 

David_M

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For completeness, as pictured above, I tried the TS-RCA to convert the balanced output to a single-ended signal. While the oscilloscope tracings above look fine, have a look at what happened using the high resolution THD+N graph:
View attachment 147585

[ Clearly, there is a significant increase in distortion if we use a simple converter adaptor that ties the sleeve and ring connections. Notice that I showed the -3dBFS FFT just to make sure the extra distortions are not due to clipping (basically no difference between 0dBFS and -3dBFS). Realize though that a THD+N of around -85dB actually still sounds good even if far from optimal for this DAC. Consider that this is still a better THD+N than the SMSL SA300 desktop amplifier I use. Again, a reminder of just how much resolution DACs have these days compared to the rest of the audio reproduction chain!

Yes. Follow the Topping warning and avoid simple balanced-to-single-ended converters like this. ]

@maty ... You did NOT perform this test. Please give credit to the person who did this test above!. It was NOT you but it was Archimago's Musings who thoroughly tested the D10b. You are telling this forum that you measured this DAC in the unsupported TRS-RCA configuration, but YOU DIDN'T!!! Archimago, a Canadian, did these tests in this month's blog of his musings.

Plagiarising someone else's work, claiming it's yours IS ILLEGAL and EXTREMELY UNETHICAL and hurtful to the true author of the original work.

His tests are far more comprehensive than Amir's tests and they don't feel rushed. His writings are methodical, very informative, and easy to read plus they are extremely well-sourced.

The extra tests he performs include DSD performance (DSD64,128,256...plus their spectral plots) and PCM performance for all supported sampling rates, amongst other things. After reading his comprehensive blog about the product and tech around it, you'll definitely know if you want to buy it or not. Plus you get a thorough technical education about things you never knew about. Its a very enjoyable read.
 
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Atanasi

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DC doesn't matter. You have a capacitor at input.
Not always.
As an example of a headphone amplifier that doesn't tolerate a DC offset, the manual of JDS Atom Amp+ specifies:
Atom Amp+ is DC coupled for maximum signal quality and requires an input source with < 4.5mV of DC offset for safe operation.
So, Atom Amp+ would not be safe to use with D10 Balanced.
 
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