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Opinions on Hypex Plate (FusionAMP) Amplifiers?

YSDR

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Hello everyone, i'm planing a stereo diy project that implies a pair of hypex fusion Fa503

I will need a dac too, and my choice will go for a smsl dac with symetrical xlr outputs

I am confused how to connect the dac as i read that fa503 operates as master and slave speaker?

Will dac both xlr outputs be connected to one hypex master, and then i conect via optical to the second hypex slave?

Or will dac xlr left output be connected to left speaker and dac xlr right output be connected to right speaker?
Thanks
DAC left XLR out to the left speaker, DAC right XLR out to the right speaker. If you control the volume with the DAC, like a preamp (before FA), then even the master-slave configuration is not necessary if you don't use the Hpex FA remote controller.
 

YSDR

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Hypex is digital, so i wanted to come IN the hypex in digital : in that setup, i believe a small device that can control volume upstream would be a safe way when i power up hypex and laptop to listen music
One option for that I found is a miniDSP SHD or SHD Studio. You can control the volume with the SHD and sends that digital signal to Hypex FA. There is a nice, informative display, DIRAC Live and a Volumio streamer too in the SHD. Although it's not cheap.
 

Gremlins

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One option for that I found is a miniDSP SHD or SHD Studio. You can control the volume with the SHD and sends that digital signal to Hypex FA. There is a nice, informative display, DIRAC Live and a Volumio streamer too in the SHD. Although it's not cheap.
Thanks
It looks really good the shd studio including dirac, but too expensive for now ... but for sure i will go this route in the future ..dirac is optimisation

Any other otions ?

I think i will go with analog input for now, i musnt loose in quality Vs digital in?
 

YSDR

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I think i will go with analog input for now, i musnt loose in quality Vs digital in?
When using the Hypex FA analog input, the sound quality depends mainly on the analog source. The FA is not a limiting factor here in my opinion and experience. I also use the analog XLR connection from a DAC with volume control.
 

sigbergaudio

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I think i will go with analog input for now, i musnt loose in quality Vs digital in?

The AD/DA conversions in the fusionamps are essentially transparent, I wouldn't loose sleep over it. This will not be the limiting factor of your setup.
 
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abdo123

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When using the Hypex FA analog input, the sound quality depends mainly on the analog source. The FA is not a limiting factor here in my opinion and experience. I also use the analog XLR connection from a DAC with volume control.

No all inputs are digitized for the crossover and PEQ and then turned analog again.
 

YSDR

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No all inputs are digitized for the crossover and PEQ and then turned analog again.
Well, that's true. I meant the AD/DA conversion of the Fusionamp is essentially transparent (as said by sigbergaudio few comments before) and the "sound quality" depends on what analog source you have before the Fusionamps in the signal chain. If you have bad analog source (e.g. crap analog preamp) the final sound quality will be crap too. But if you have good (or transparent to human ear) analog source before the FA in the signal chain, then the sound quality will be good, even if the signal is digitized, then converted back to analog.
 
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abdo123

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Well, that's true. I meant the AD/DA conversion of the Fusuonamp is essentially transparent (as said by sigbergaudio few vomments before) and the "sound quality" depends on what analog source you have before the Fusionamps in the signal chain. If you have bad analog source (e.g. crap analog preamp) the final sound quality will be crap too. But if you have good (or transparent to human ear) analog source before the FA in the signal chain then sound quality will be good even if digitized, then converted back to analog.

That’s not what you meant because it contradicts what you said

the DAC module of the Hypex fusion amp is capable of 106 SINAD. It’s the limiting factor unless you’re using your phone’s headphone jack for input.

whether you care about that or not is your choice, just don’t spread misinformation.
 

sigbergaudio

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That’s not what you meant because it contradicts what you said

the DAC module of the Hypex fusion amp is capable of 106 SINAD. It’s the limiting factor unless you’re using your phone’s headphone jack for input.

whether you care about that or not is your choice, just don’t spread misinformation.

I guess "limiting factor" was my phrase, so in that case my bad for not being entirely precise. What I meant to answer was "would the AD/DA conversion in the Fusions meaningfully degrade your sound quality", to which the answer is no.

Also, your answer here seems to imply (if I understand you correctly) that almost everything earlier in the chain would be expected to have a SINAD higher of 106dB, which would likely not be the case for most people / setups.
 
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abdo123

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Also, your answer here seems to imply (if I understand you correctly) that almost everything earlier in the chain would be expected to have a SINAD higher of 106dB, which would likely not be the case for most people / setups.

200w.gif


Who are you marketing your Speakers for?

the average Joe who is happily content with his laptop speakers? Because they obviously won't buy your product.

the average user of this forum? Because they definitely have access to affordable DACs that do better than 106 dB.

or the gear hoarding audiophile? they would rather have passive speakers so they would use their tube DACs and tube Amps.

How about High-end Home Theater? well bookshelves just won't cut it so yeah not here either.

What about studios and production houses? well they obviously care about noise as they don't want speakers hissing at them all day.

Saying your customers don't care and don't have access to quality gear will not validate your choice of components, it will just make you look insecure.

All I asked is not to spread misinformation.
 

sigbergaudio

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200w.gif


Who are you marketing your Speakers for?

the average Joe who is happily content with his laptop speakers? Because they obviously won't buy your product.

the average user of this forum? Because they definitely have access to affordable DACs that do better than 106 dB.

or the gear hoarding audiophile? they would rather have passive speakers so they would use their tube DACs and tube Amps.

How about High-end Home Theater? well bookshelves just won't cut it so yeah not here either.

What about studios and production houses? well they obviously care about noise as they don't want speakers hissing at them all day.

Saying your customers don't care and don't have access to quality gear will not validate your choice of components, it will just make you look insecure.

All I asked is not to spread misinformation.

This thread (or my reply) wasn't really about marketing our speakers, not sure how this turned into a discussion about our target audience. I'm happy to take that discussion, but this doesn't seem like the right thread for it. Feel free to ask the question in our build threads if you are genuinely curious.

I apologized for being imprecise. Then I pointed out that most systems won't have 106dB SINAD (nor do they need to). Was that misinformation as well, or is your position that most systems have greater than 106dB SINAD?
 

sigbergaudio

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Saying your customers don't care and don't have access to quality gear will not validate your choice of components, it will just make you look insecure.

Since it's moderately on-topic, I'd be interested to hear which active speakers use higher quality amplification / components than ours.
 
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abdo123

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Was that misinformation as well, or is your position that most systems have greater than 106dB SINAD?

Only the DAC needs to have higher SINAD, not the 'system'.

Well I refreshed my knowledge a bit and the situation is actually worse than I imagined as Signal to Noise ratio is lower than that of the actual Hypex amplifier in the fusion plate and SINAD is actually worse than 106 dB and it is actually 100 dB.


1626340103635.png


So right now we're in the territory of whether headphone dongles have better performance than this.
 
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abdo123

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Since it's moderately on-topic, I'd be interested to hear which active speakers use higher quality amplification / components than ours.

No one. that's why I said you don't need to say your customers are dumb to validate your choice, your choice doesn't need validation.
 
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sigbergaudio

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Only the DAC needs to have higher SINAD, not the 'system'.

Well I refreshed my knowledge a bit and the situation is actually worse than I imagined as Signal to Noise ratio is lower than that of the actual Hypex amplifier in the fusion plate and SINAD is actually worse than 106 dB and it is actually 100 dB.

So right now we're in the territory of whether headphone dongles have better performance than this.

I applaud your reading skills, but as I'm sure you know, 100dB is more than sufficient for transparent playback. The SINAD focus on ASR isn't really about "110dB vs 100dB will make an audible difference", it's more about "from an engineering standpoint it could have been even better".

My answer in this thread was specifically about the situation being asked about, and based on what has been revelead in this thread so far, using the analog inputs on a fusion amp will not be a problem for this user (nor will it be in virtually any other situation for that matter). As again I'm sure you know, your actual SINAD situation in your listening room is horrible. If you're at 100dB at the step before your speakers start pushing sound into your room, you have a SINAD situation that is vastly better than the majority of setups. Your speakers can't be driven by your SOTA SINAD DAC alone.

When it comes to our own products, again this thread shouldn't be about them, but I'm confident you will struggle to find active speakers with better amps.
 

sigbergaudio

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No one. that's why I said, you don't need to say your customers are dumb to validate your choice, your choice doesn't need validation.

It would be great if we refrained from strawman arguments. I never said anything remotely close to that. In the posts you quoted I did not talk about my product choices, and I did not talk about our customers.
 

voodooless

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So right now we're in the territory of whether headphone dongles have better performance than this.

Except that those don't offer 100+ Watts of power ;)

Interestingly they lose about 20 dB of SNR compared to a raw mains powered Ncore. That is quite a lot. THD loses only about 8 to 10 dB vs a naked amp (but fusion amp does not give you at what power they measured the THD). Edit: take a look here: it's worse: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-plate-fusionamp-amplifiers.18537/post-846934
 
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abdo123

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I applaud your reading skills, but as I'm sure you know, 100dB is more than sufficient for transparent playback. The SINAD focus on ASR isn't really about "110dB vs 100dB will make an audible difference", it's more about "from an engineering standpoint it could have been even better".

My answer in this thread was specifically about the situation being asked about, and based on what has been revelead in this thread so far, using the analog inputs on a fusion amp will not be a problem for this user (nor will it be in virtually any other situation for that matter). As again I'm sure you know, your actual SINAD situation in your listening room is horrible. If you're at 100dB at the step before your speakers start pushing sound into your room, you have a SINAD situation that is vastly better than the majority of setups. Your speakers can't be driven by your SOTA SINAD DAC alone.

When it comes to our own products, again this thread shouldn't be about them, but I'm confident you will struggle to find active speakers with better amps.

my MiniDSP 2*4 HD has a S/N of ~107 dB and I can hear the hiss loud and clear at night.

these noise levels (assuming they will be amplified further by the amplifiers) are audible and frankly annoying. This is not yet the extreme insignficant case that you're making it out to be.
 
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