Schiit speaks

[Raindog123]

I didn't say the strategy was ineffective, but you can see their lack of professionalism in some of their early products and reactions. They have apparently improved, good for them.

To me, a steady progression from mediocre to great is a definite mark of professionalism. Just like SpaceX’s Mars Stairship launches…

As for Schiit’s name, has not it been pointed out at (and rebutted in the most silliest ways) in this very thread a few pages back?

 

[BDWoody]

In 1994, the band Green Day named their third album "Dookie" (a toddler-level euphemism for feces), and sold 20 million copies...

Well, then there's Steely Dan, named after a dildo...

 

[BlackTalon]

There is a business not too far from me called 'POS Systems'. Of course they sell Point of Sale systems, but the business is right on the edge of a stretch of consumer stores and restaurants, and it makes me laugh every time I see as I suspect the majority of the people equate POS with something else. I wonder if their straightforward name generates more business or reduces it.

 

[BrEpBrEpBrEpBrEp]

Here's an idea: You're not allowed to argue the measurements unless you do a Double Blind Placebo test.

Every single gum-flapping shit-slinging argument I've seen in audio gear can be resolved with one single DIY-at-home test. It seems to be the one thing protecting audio from being at the complete mercy of subjectivity.
I'm sick of shit-wits rocking up here just to stomp unrestricted all over the hard work others do to provide reliable evidence-based impressions, and then dealing with 5+ pages of people scrambling to lock down someone who only signed up to cause trouble.

Stop entertaining these people. Propose they do a DB test, and ignore until they come back with empirical results. Everything else is just trying to convince someone who was never going to agree with you.
Case closed.

HydrogenAudio 2.0 time?

 

[MrOtto]

It's so interesting how the objectivists that fully believe in measurements are so ignorant of the fact that while yes, measurements can definitely help evaluating an amp (as an example), that not the whole story. That's what Jason is saying.

Amir's measurements are just that. Raw data. Compare it as such, but most of all trust your ears. There are tons of other variables that make one like or dislike a piece of equipment.

Like with a car, 0-60, MPG, interior/exterior dimensions are only few of the measurements available. Few people buy a car purely based on that.

You should by an amp on the basis of looks or brand sentiment?

 

[welsh]

Yep. To add to what Amir said, Stoddard trivializes it in such a way that someone who is not fluent in the subjectivist vs. objectivist debate does not realize it's happening. Much like with the blind listening chapter that we previously discussed.

And in this and that chapter, he's also creating sound bytes that subjectivists will throw out in discussions on other forums. I've seen the blind listening justification a few times since that chapter.

And for anyone who doesn't believe this is intentional, savvy marketing, then you've forgotten the name of the company and how well they built catchy marketing prose off the company name to sell their products. Don't forget the book, which you can now buy on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Schiit-Happened-Worlds-Improbable-Start-Up/dp/1514355027/

I’ve never really understood the ‘World’s Most Improbable Start-Up’ bit. Jason and his partners all had previous careers in audio. If he’d started a company to make plastic 1:1 scale models of frogs, then yes…

 

[welsh]

I've felt this and posted a view regarding this on other threads - Just *maybe,* our ears LIKE a little bit of background noise rather than absolute digital silence in the background. Jason has mentioned again he still feels the inferior measuring units they still make and sell 'sound' better to him, although he's laid back about it (judging by his blog). I appreciate his worst measuring dacs are still no worse than many audiophile/audiophool amps which routinely still spray distortion all over in the -70's to -90's, but I have to respect his views as I believe he was at least partly responsible for the Theta stuff of decades past (no idea how the late 90's Theta digital stuff 'measured,' but I remember it 'sounding' very good indeed back then). I'm at the Topping E30 level financially, but the little Schiit and the cheeky background to it really does appeal, plus th efact there's a proper UK distributor once they get stock again

I’ve got a Loki Mini tone control and the Sys passive preamp/switcher. Both do what I want them to do. But my Valhalla 2 distortion box only rarely gets used, and then only with HD 650…

 

[dpuopolo]

I mainly lurk here - and these (nasty) comments have forced me to respond. First, let me state that have been an audiophile since I was six years old. My dad worked at National Company in Malden, MA and made several 6L6 based Williamson amplifiers there - with matching 12AX7 preamps. I also have been designing my own tube, discrete transistor, FET and Opamp high end stuff since the 1970s & also have been a Radio/TV broadcast Chief Engineer for about 50 years.

1. Jason was 100% correct about what he said. EVERYTHING he said is true! Human perception (which audio/hearing is a subset of) can be affected by EVERY SINGLE THING that Jason spoke of - and if you don't agree then your powers of perception are suspect. Perceived bias is also quite real. Some things you WANT to believe - so you do - reality be damned.

2. Why can different pieces of audio gear that measure similar sound different? It comes down to ONE word: SYNERGY! It's literally how different pieces of equipment 'play' with one another! For the reality impaired out there, I have written an article about this. Though it is written from the broadcast perspective, most of you should still understand it.

Put Synergies to Work at Your Station (radioworld.com)

3. Has it occurred to you that perhaps since we live in a noisy ANALOG world that our ears LIKE TO HEAR the analog noise and distortion that comes from vinyl? I base this on the fact that my wife and I own a Low Power FM station outside Philadelphia (WZML) and our Wednesday evening show is 100% vinyl based. Only problem is it arrives digitally from NJ and is sent to the transmitter (and streamed) digitally - yet I can HEAR (and prefer) the analog 'sound' that is accurately recreated by our 24 bit digital link. Last night he opened a new 1970s British pressing copy of Help! by The Beatles - and I heard things I have never heard before - all accurately sent over our digital link.

Listen for yourself: http://freeus2.listen2myradio.com:14821/Stream

Finally, this is supposed to be a hobby; thus enjoyable. Why is it that so many here seem to NOT be enjoying themselves? If HiFi so awful for you then you need to find a more enjoyable hobby!

 

[Kalessin]

I’ve never really understood the ‘World’s Most Improbable Start-Up’ bit. Jason and his partners all had previous careers in audio. If he’d started a company to make plastic 1:1 scale models of frogs, then yes…

There's a great word dating back to at least 1892 for describing it as "World's Most Improbable Start-Up": puffery

There are hundreds of World's Most Improbable Startups, just like there are hundreds of World's Most Flavorful Beers, and that's normal and expected. It makes the story more exciting and helps sell the goods, and nobody expects it to be the literal truth.

 

[BluesDaddy]

I mainly lurk here - and these (nasty) comments have forced me to respond. First, let me state that have been an audiophile since I was six years old. My dad worked at National Company in Malden, MA and made several 6L6 based Williamson amplifiers there - with matching 12AX7 preamps. I also have been designing my own tube, discrete transistor, FET and Opamp high end stuff since the 1970s & also have been a Radio/TV broadcast Chief Engineer for about 50 years.

1. Jason was 100% correct about what he said. EVERYTHING he said is true! Human perception (which audio/hearing is a subset of) can be affected by EVERY SINGLE THING that Jason spoke of - and if you don't agree then your powers of perception are suspect. Perceived bias is also quite real. Some things you WANT to believe - so you do - reality be damned.

2. Why can different pieces of audio gear that measure similar sound different? It comes down to ONE word: SYNERGY! It's literally how different pieces of equipment 'play' with one another! For the reality impaired out there, I have written an article about this. Though it is written from the broadcast perspective, most of you should still understand it.

Put Synergies to Work at Your Station (radioworld.com)

3. Has it occurred to you that perhaps since we live in a noisy ANALOG world that our ears LIKE TO HEAR the analog noise and distortion that comes from vinyl? I base this on the fact that my wife and I own a Low Power FM station outside Philadelphia (WZML) and our Wednesday evening show is 100% vinyl based. Only problem is it arrives digitally from NJ and is sent to the transmitter (and streamed) digitally - yet I can HEAR (and prefer) the analog 'sound' that is accurately recreated by our 24 bit digital link. Last night he opened a new 1970s British pressing copy of Help! by The Beatles - and I heard things I have never heard before - all accurately sent over our digital link.

Listen for yourself: http://freeus2.listen2myradio.com:14821/Stream

Finally, this is supposed to be a hobby; thus enjoyable. Why is it that so many here seem to NOT be enjoying themselves? If HiFi so awful for you then you need to find a more enjoyable hobby!

This reads as a litany of rationalizations every audiophool uses to convince himself he's not just flushing money down a toilet. The last assertion essentially is a claim to be able to read people's minds here and that, because they disagree with his beliefs in magical "synergy" and that perceptual bias is a GOOD thing in judging the SOUND of hifi equipment they must not enjoy themselves. I'm willing to bet every single member here enjoys his or her pursuit of this hobby.

 

[dpuopolo]

It's sad that your mind is so closed that you didn't "get" one single thing I said. You truly must be a legend in you own mind. I pity you.

 

[BluesDaddy]

It's sad that your mind is so closed that you didn't "get" one single thing I said. You truly must be a legend in you own mind. I pity you.

There you go, reading my mind again. What's sad is that you've had opportunity to educate yourself on this forum and have failed to take advantage of it.

 

[muslhead]

"It's sad that your mind is so closed that you didn't "get" one single thing I said. You truly must be a legend in you own mind. I pity you. "
Wow, 6 posts and one of them is insulting someone.
Maybe lurking is what you should do since posting doesnt seem to be working out for you.

 

[dpuopolo]

There you go, reading my mind again. What's sad is that you've had opportunity to educate yourself on this forum and have failed to take advantage of it.

Educate myself? Funny! Let me clue you into something: People have been making measurements since the beginning of time, and Spectrum Analyzers have been available since the 1940s.
I have owned audio components that you would have killed for. I have thrown and given away stuff that would make you cry.
So please don't assume that I'm some neophyte. Do you even know what a modified tap Williamson amplifier is without searching? What about a KLH Nine or Last PAS?

 

[BluesDaddy]

Educate myself? Funny! Let me clue you into something: People have been making measurements since the beginning of time, and Spectrum Analyzers have been available since the 1940s.
I have owned audio components that you would have killed for. I have thrown and given away stuff that would make you cry.
So please don't assume that I'm some neophyte. Do you even know what a modified tap Williamson amplifier is without searching? What about a KLH Nine or Last PAS?

More audiophool braggadocio. Did that make you feel better about yourself? Glad I'm not so old or proud I can't be educated some more.

 

[raistlin65]

 

[rdenney]

Educate myself? Funny! Let me clue you into something: People have been making measurements since the beginning of time, and Spectrum Analyzers have been available since the 1940s.
I have owned audio components that you would have killed for. I have thrown and given away stuff that would make you cry.
So please don't assume that I'm some neophyte. Do you even know what a modified tap Williamson amplifier is without searching? What about a KLH Nine or Last PAS?

Dude, if you are going to compare your credentials with some of the guys around here, I admire your courage.

Rick "just sayin'" Denney

 

[amirm]

2. Why can different pieces of audio gear that measure similar sound different? It comes down to ONE word: SYNERGY!

The right word is MYTH. Yes, there are rare cases where equipment has odd impedances and such but in general, there is no such thing. It is an impossibility for Schiit for example to have designed their DAC for some random downstream amp you think has synergy with it.

A world were audio synergy exist is hell. It means you as an audiophile have no prayer of knowing in advance what works well with what. Fortunately this is not the case. General rules of design allow plug-and-play chain of audio gear with nary an impact with respect to total system.

So please, please don't throw these terms at us. We have heard them a million times and they have no basis in fact, engineering or science. You are better off explaining Sasquatch exists than any the argument you are making.

 

[amirm]

Educate myself? Funny! Let me clue you into something: People have been making measurements since the beginning of time, and Spectrum Analyzers have been available since the 1940s.
I have owned audio components that you would have killed for. I have thrown and given away stuff that would make you cry.
So please don't assume that I'm some neophyte. Do you even know what a modified tap Williamson amplifier is without searching? What about a KLH Nine or Last PAS?

There is zero relevance between what you are saying and the topic at hand. The skill you need to have is conducting controlled tests where people don't know which is which and back your stated claims. Or having read research you could cite about it. Otherwise you may have explained you were a plumber and it would be just as apt.

 

[ahofer]

Still waiting for someone to demonstrate, scientifically, that they can hear something in electronics that can’t be measured. Sure it’s possible, but we haven’t seen it.