Apple lossless official announcement

[Mulder]

I do not hear anyone screaming !!! Maybe this is a death knell for Tidal and MQA, or it is not as long as audiophiles prefer ROON. But after the looong thread about MQA recently, one wonders why this is not perceived as big as a threat as MQA. Here, one of the world's largest companies now introduces a format that is locked, which requires licenses and which, just like MQA, can not be fully evaluated other than with listening tests.

 

[Ata]

The next big question is: How are Apple Masters different from the same song on Qoboz?

My guess is that Apple Masters means that the song/album comes with a 24-bit sampling rate, I can see Pink Floyd's "Apple Masters" albums come up as 44.1K/24 now -- effectively "hires" -- take that Qobuz and Tidal!

 

[Ata]

I do not hear anyone screaming !!! Maybe this is a death knell for Tidal and MQA, or it is not as long as audiophiles prefer ROON. But after the looong thread about MQA recently, one wonders why this is not perceived as big as a threat as MQA. Here, one of the world's largest companies now introduces a format that is locked, which requires licenses and which, just like MQA, can not be fully evaluated other than with listening tests.

What format are you referring to here? If it is ALAC, this format/container is as open as it gets. What you can't do, of course, is download music to your local storage without DRM, but that is no different to any other providers.

 

[voodooless]

I do not hear anyone screaming !!! Maybe this is a death knell for Tidal and MQA, or it is not as long as audiophiles prefer ROON. But after the looong thread about MQA recently, one wonders why this is not perceived as big as a threat as MQA. Here, one of the world's largest companies now introduces a format that is locked, which requires licenses and which, just like MQA, can not be fully evaluated other than with listening tests.

What format is locked? Apple Lossless (ALAC) is an open format under Apache 2.0. Everybody can implement it.

Atmos on the other hand is basically something there is no real alternative for and is not Apple developed. But has been supported by most decent AV receivers for years. It is definitely a closed and licenced format though. All of the streaming platform that offer multichannel audio use it.. No special Apple badness here..

 

[voodooless]

My guess is that Apple Masters means that the song/album comes with a 24-bit sampling rate, I can see Pink Floyd's "Apple Masters" albums come up as 44.1K/24 now -- effectively "hires" -- take that Qobuz and Tidal!

I don't like the guessing. Would like to know for sure. If there is something to scream about, like @Mulder would like to do, then this would be it

 

[Mulder]

What format are you referring to here?

Dolby Atmos. I am not saying this make Apple worse than others, but why is Tidal and MQA regarded as such an evil thing in comparison?

 

[Ata]

Dolby Atmos. I am not saying this make Apple worse than others, but why is Tidal and MQA regarded as such an evil thing in comparison?

The only multichannel object oriented alternative might be DTS-X, which AFAIK is just another locked down format.

 

[hmscott]

So, has anyone now tried Apple Lossless Music? Compared to previous Apple Streaming or Apple Music recordings, how do they compare subjectively, or measurements if anyone has done that yet:

Apple Music activates Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio content | AppleInsider - Jun 08, 2021

"As promised, Apple late Monday flipped the switch on Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio content on Apple Music, with some users reporting the technology is now live for select tracks and albums.

Mentioned in passing during the Worldwide Developers Conference keynote, Apple Music was scheduled to enable both Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio today. Subscribers are now reporting that the service is now live, though support has not rolled out to all users." ...more in the article @ link.

Apple Support updated docs with Apple Lossless mentioned - edited within the last 8 hours:

About lossless audio in Apple Music – Apple Support

Distributor and Label Help - Apple Music Provider Support

‎Music: Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos by Oliver  on Apple Music - updated 11 hours ago

‎Made for Spatial Audio on Apple Music - updated 6 hours ago

Music - Official Apple Support - updated 2 hours ago

About spatial audio with Dolby Atmos in Apple Music - Apple Support - updated 9 hours ago

‎AppleInsider Podcast on Apple Podcasts - WWDC additions, including Apple Lossless and Spatial Audio

All Topics Archive - Apple (IN) - iOS/iPadOS 15 News Releases

There are a number of non-English Apple Lossless/Spatial +WWDC related links updated recently as well (keep scrolling, paginate as well):

 

[Ata]

May I know which song is 24/192? I remember Fleetwood Mac is 24/192 on TIDAL but I tried it in Apple Music only shows 24/96.

Try Carly Simon -- "No Secrets", comes as 192K/24 for me.

 

[voodooless]

Dolby Atmos. I am not saying this make Apple worse than others, but why is Tidal and MQA regarded as such an evil thing in comparison?

The one has actually a use case and solves an actual problem, the other does not.

 

[Cyfrox]

Try Carly Simon -- "No Secrets", comes as 192K/24 for me.

Alright, let's go!!! E30 shows 192Khz

 

[sergeauckland]

Try Carly Simon -- "No Secrets", comes as 192K/24 for me.

No Secrets was released in 1972. It was therefore recorded and mixed on analogue tape, with a bandwidth (at best) of 20kHz and a S/N ratio of some 60dB, maybe 70dB if being generous. So what possible benefit can 192/24 have? Doesn't need the bandwidth as there's nothing there, doesn't need 24 bit as the noise is already well above even 16 bit.
So firstly, why is data being so wasted? Data has a cost, both to the supplier and the environment, and secondly, why would anyone be taken in by the idea it's somehow magically better?

I couldn't just be bullshit marketing, could it?

S.

 

[voodooless]

Alright, let's go!!! E30 shows 192Khz

That is encouraging. What's your source? Music app on what? iOS, MacOS?

 

[DavidMcRoy]

Here’s my early reactions thread:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-dolby-atmos-is-on-my-iphone-and-ipad.24036/

 

[Ata]

So, has anyone now tried Apple Lossless Music? Compared to previous Apple Streaming or Apple Music recordings, how do they compare subjectively, or measurements if anyone has done that yet:

Apple Music activates Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio content | AppleInsider - Jun 08, 2021

"As promised, Apple late Monday flipped the switch on Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio content on Apple Music, with some users reporting the technology is now live for select tracks and albums.

Mentioned in passing during the Worldwide Developers Conference keynote, Apple Music was scheduled to enable both Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio today. Subscribers are now reporting that the service is now live, though support has not rolled out to all users." ...more in the article @ link.

Apple Support updated docs with Apple Lossless mentioned - edited within the last 8 hours:

About lossless audio in Apple Music – Apple Support

Distributor and Label Help - Apple Music Provider Support

‎Music: Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos by Oliver  on Apple Music - updated 11 hours ago

‎Made for Spatial Audio on Apple Music - updated 6 hours ago

Music - Official Apple Support - updated 2 hours ago

About spatial audio with Dolby Atmos in Apple Music - Apple Support - updated 9 hours ago

‎AppleInsider Podcast on Apple Podcasts - WWDC additions, including Apple Lossless and Spatial Audio

All Topics Archive - Apple (IN) - iOS/iPadOS 15 News Releases

There are a number of non-English Apple Lossless/Spatial +WWDC related links updated recently as well (keep scrolling, paginate as well):

Tried Spatial Audio on my Airpods Pro, which are anything but good sound quality. Plenty of Dolby Atmos tracks in all music genres, sounds different (more bassy) but not necessarily better than stereo. Spatial Audio does not seem to be on, as I turn my head nothing changes.

What is a bit annoying is that Spatial Audio / Atmos seems to be "overshadowing" the "lossless"/"hires lossless" tracks. For example, on Diana Krall's "Turn Up the Quiet" playback results in a Dolby Atmos sign even though the album is marked as lossless/master.

EDIT: Hmm, Tracks 1 and 2 on that album are Atmos, but 4 is lossless...

 

[abdo123]

Tried Spatial Audio on my Airpods Pro, which are anything but good sound quality. Plenty of Dolby Atmos tracks in all music genres, sounds different (more bassy) but not necessarily better than stereo. Spatial Audio does not seem to be on, as I turn my head nothing changes.

What is a bit annoying is that Spatial Audio / Atmos seems to be "overshadowing" the "lossless"/"hires lossless" tracks. For example, on Diana Krall's "Turn Up the Quiet" playback results in a Dolby Atmos sign even though the album is marked as lossless/master.

EDIT: Hmm, Tracks 1 and 2 on that album are Atmos, but 4 is lossless...

you can disable atmos in the settings.

 

[dmac6419]

I do not hear anyone screaming !!! Maybe this is a death knell for Tidal and MQA, or it is not as long as audiophiles prefer ROON. But after the looong thread about MQA recently, one wonders why this is not perceived as big as a threat as MQA. Here, one of the world's largest companies now introduces a format that is locked, which requires licenses and which, just like MQA, can not be fully evaluated other than with listening tests.

Maybe it's a death knell for Qobuz and Spotify too,why just Tidal?

 

[Ata]

you can disable atmos in the settings.

Yes, but I'd like to have a choice during playback

 

[MayaTlab]

What is a bit annoying is that Spatial Audio / Atmos seems to be "overshadowing" the "lossless"/"hires lossless" tracks. For example, on Diana Krall's "Turn Up the Quiet" playback results in a Dolby Atmos sign even though the album is marked as lossless/master.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your concern well enough, but I am not sure that there is such a thing as "lossless" Dolby Atmos for consumer applications anyway.
https://learning.dolby.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052744252-Module-1-2-Beyond-Multichannel-Audio-

 

[Ata]

Maybe it's a death knell for Qobuz and Spotify too,why just Tidal?

It may not be a death knell, but certainly destroys their premium pricing model for lossless and Hires music. They will need to innovate in other ways to stay relevant.