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Genelec 8351b with 2x 7370 vs Sopra No2 vs Atc 50 ASL

Sprint

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I experimented quite a bit with positioning when I first got them. I actually found kinda the opposite of what you said. They sound fantastic "far" field, but I didn't like them nearfield as much. I found a "nearfield" spot that measured near perfect with the speakers about 8ft(2.5m) apart, but it just never sounded right. Hard to describe, but it was almost "overwhelming"?(really can't think of a good word). Felt like it was right on top me or something(maybe I just don't like the nearfield sound). Right now I've got them in a 12' equilateral triangle that sounds fantastic.

That's all with many 18" woofers helping out on the low end, though. I think Mesanovic RTM10 and 8C studio are better values for a full range experience. Same with the Salon2(I've actually had offers that low or lower :D). Best value actually may be the Philharmonic BMR Tower; super wide dispersion, 25Hz -3 extension and sealed. Really want to see measurements of that one.

I think you're probably right about the LS50 + EQ vs LS50Meta, but it relies on good anechoic measurements and your sample matching that sample closely. KEF has shown great tolerance though, so far. There may still be a small distortion difference, but no idea how audible that is(if it even is).

I have a similar experience with my 8340. I listen to them at 3,5 meters. The front L&R are 3,5 meters apart. I like them more at this distance rather than a 2 meter which I tried as well.
 

Sprint

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Well the term 'nearfield' is used often and without precision or definition. To many people it means ~1m or less, the distance you get from placing speakers on a typical desktop. To Genelec and other people using the pro audio definition of it, though, it just means that the direct sound is dominant, which can be as far as 5m with some speakers in an exceptionally large room. As far as "disappearing" talk goes, IMO it's silly and pointless, but we've been over that one before.

My listening distance to my front LCR 8340 is 3,5 meters. I can only confirm that I get a fully immersive experience (or I guess this is what disappearing means). Before that, I had passive floor standers at the same position and with Genelecs I am taken to a complete different dimension altogether.
 

Sprint

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I didn't forget it, you're just not actually reading the posts in the thread, as usual. "on a console" is a pretty disastrous acoustic environment, btw. Further, this idea that they're only suited to nearfield is silly. No one has ever put forth any meaningful explanation of why there would be such a restriction. And if you ask Genelec themselves, they'll say something like sure longer distances are no problem. And that their recommendations are based on studio conditions, which require higher SPL, so in the home the distances can be longer.

Before I decided for my Genelecs 8340/8330 surround set up, I had lots of exchanges with Genelec reps in my country showing my photos of my living room. As you mentioned, the longer distances are not a problem even for 8340 as they produce insane SPL for that size though I do not listen to more than 75 DB and with a 85 DB LFE passage. The distance recommendation from Genelec only indicate that above the recommended distance, the indirect sound dominates the direct sound. As per Genelec table, my distance of 3,5 meters still falls under greenish yellow category. Subjectively, I am amazed by how these monitors sound in my living room even at this distance.
2021-06-06_12-54-50.png
 

Frgirard

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In a reverberant room as a living room, the genelec chart is irrelevant.
Every little speaker can play loud in a living room.
You can forgot details, precision..decay and so.
 

Sprint

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In a reverberant room as a living room, the genelec chart is irrelevant.
Every little speaker can play loud in a living room.
You can forgot details, precision..decay and so.

Yeah, I do agree that the chart is for studios but one cannot completely ignore for home set up. I have sent my GLM measurements to Genelec and they said that my measurements were pretty good thought it is a living room (I do have furnitures, curtains and other stuff to remove reverberation). I was told that I do not have bad notches. With respect to details, in my reference tracks they are all there. I listen even more details than my old passives in the same room. GLM repairs all the shortcoming of the room.
 

Frgirard

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GLM repairs all the shortcoming of the room.

It's better than nothing, but it's very over the top. 80% of the acoustic problems are under 500 Hz. Ikea can not do something for that. The cheap way is to reduce the listening distance.
 

Sprint

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It's better than nothing, but it's very over the top. 80% of the acoustic problems are under 500 Hz. Ikea can not do something for that. The cheap way is to reduce the listening distance.

Below 500 HZ is where GLM operates. It does not correct high freq. Not sure why you feel GLM is over the top. I have both DIRAC and GLM. Both are great. If GLM was not good, then most of the studios would not have used it. At least to my naive knowledge, they are working like how they are intended for. I have only 3 point measurement. I could have 5 point or more but then it is overly corrected. Hence I stuck with 3 point (one middle, right and left of the couch) and I am pretty happy with the result.

Here is my GLM correction for Left and Right 8340.

Left 8340 1.png
Right 8340 1.png
 

richard12511

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Below 500 HZ is where GLM operates. It does not correct high freq. Not sure why you feel GLM is over the top. I have both DIRAC and GLM. Both are great. If GLM was not good, then most of the studios would not have used it. At least to my naive knowledge, they are working like how they are intended for. I have only 3 point measurement. I could have 5 point or more but then it is overly corrected. Hence I stuck with 3 point (one middle, right and left of the couch) and I am pretty happy with the result.

Here is my GLM correction for Left and Right 8340.

View attachment 134109View attachment 134110

Yeah, not sure why just 3 notch filters below 400Hz and one high shelf filter would be considered "over the top". GLM is actually the least aggressive of the EQs I've tried(Dirac, GLM, Audyssey), as it uses very few filters, only corrects below 500Hz, and doesn't touch dips at all.
 

JustJones

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Below 500 HZ is where GLM operates. It does not correct high freq. Not sure why you feel GLM is over the top. I have both DIRAC and GLM. Both are great. If GLM was not good, then most of the studios would not have used it. At least to my naive knowledge, they are working like how they are intended for. I have only 3 point measurement. I could have 5 point or more but then it is overly corrected. Hence I stuck with 3 point (one middle, right and left of the couch) and I am pretty happy with the result.

Here is my GLM correction for Left and Right 8340.

View attachment 134109View attachment 134110
It might not be audible but I notice you have -.1db level compensation on the bottom speaker and delay .52 on the top. You could be more precise at mic position than I am but I read in the manual to set these at 0 for most stereo applications unless you carefully measured the mic position from the speakers as being less than an inch difference will cause these slight variations.
 

Sprint

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Yeah, not sure why just 3 notch filters below 400Hz and one high shelf filter would be considered "over the top". GLM is actually the least aggressive of the EQs I've tried(Dirac, GLM, Audyssey), as it uses very few filters, only corrects below 500Hz, and doesn't touch dips at all.

Hey Sorry. I missed another screen shot which has the other notches corrected. But here it is. It has in total 6-7 notches corrected. I have read the reason why GLM does not correct dips in the Genelec forum. If I remember vaguely, the Genelec rep said providing more energy to the dips will result in a greater dip. therefore as per Genelec recommendation, it is better to correct dips via acoustic treatment.

Left 8340 2.png
Right 8340 2.png
 

Sprint

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It might not be audible but I notice you have -.1db level compensation on the bottom speaker and delay .52 on the top. You could be more precise at mic position than I am but I read in the manual to set these at 0 for most stereo applications unless you carefully measured the mic position from the speakers as being less than an inch difference will cause these slight variations.

Thanks! these level compensation values were set by GLM automatically. However I will try resetting it to 0 and see if there is any audible improvement.
 

Sprint

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hege

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Frgirard

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hege

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A reflection cannot be equalized by a positive gain.
A modal deep can be equalized by a positive gain.

It's symply or black and white, take two measures at differents spl and see the deep following the spl increase.

Sure. I mainly refer to the simplified myth that everyone parrots: "don't equalize dips". The 100-200hz hole is very common and usually equalisable with good benefits, as Genelec now realized too.
 

Frank Dernie

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Sure. I mainly refer to the simplified myth that everyone parrots: "don't equalize dips". The 100-200hz hole is very common and usually equalisable with good benefits, as Genelec now realized too.
How much equalisation would you be happy with?
A 10 dB dip would need 10x the power to fill, which few people have even if the speaker could handle it.
 

hege

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How much equalisation would you be happy with?
A 10 dB dip would need 10x the power to fill, which few people have even if the speaker could handle it.

I guess it's not my problem. Get a set that gets the job done with plenty headroom or not, their choice. :) Most claim listening at whisper levels, so it shouldn't be a major problem.

I have around 10dB dip, settled for 6dB boost which results in noticeable improvement..
 

Frank Dernie

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I guess it's not my problem. Get a set that gets the job done with plenty headroom or not, their choice. :) Most claim listening at whisper levels, so it shouldn't be a major problem.

I have around 10dB dip, settled for 6dB boost which results in noticeable improvement..
Yes if you listen at whisper levels there should be power and speaker capacity in hand to reduce a null due to sitting near a node of a room mode.
I have been used to moving my seating position so I am further from the node :)
 

al2002

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The Kii Three has an unnatural sort of piercing high frequency response and it sounded like it was trying too hard in high spl where the ATC gives the impression of playing effortless.

That was not my experience. The Kii 3s did seem to compress the bass at loud levels, but the highs were fine, if a bit narrow in dispersion for my tastes
 
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