Apple HomePod Review (Smart Speaker)

[matt3421]

the apple pencil is amazing and makes the ipad pro a real professional artists tool. and soon the makers of procreate will push an update that takes advantage of the lidar camera and let you import 3d models

 

[carlob]

I don't think that Apple Pencil is worth the money unless you're an artist but I will say one thing about it: setting the price tag aside that thing is incredible. 240hz sampling rate!

A Wacom Bamboo Ink Plus stylus is $100 and is an inferior product. Until a couple of years ago an artist/designer had Wacom as the only option...

 

[Zensō]

A Wacom Bamboo Ink Plus stylus is $100 and is an inferior product. Until a couple of years ago an artist/designer had Wacom as the only option...

Yup. I still use an Intuos Pro with my Mac for working in the Adobe Suite and it's not as accurate or responsive as the Apple Pencil on the iPad Pro in Procreate. Really amazing tech.

 

[jhaider]

My issue is that Apple can do pretty much whatever it wants, like leave off an obvious feature like Bluetooth, and people will still worship the company and vehemently defend the product like an army of attack drones. And the responses here so far have been pretty consistent with that.

You think that’s dumb? Consider these fiascos:

1) KEF releasing a wireless LS50 with no AirPlay, a self-own so mind-bogglingly and self-evidently asinine that they had to add a whole section to their sell literature justifying it. Just imagine - a fairly expensive “designer” speaker for people with disposable income, that doesn’t work with the computing hardware people who care about design and are willing to spend disposable income generally use? Fortunately this defect was remediated in LSX and LS50 Wireless II.

2) DTS releasing a half-baked wireless audio protocol (PlayFi) and not making it Mac compatible.

3) Paradigm hitching their wagon to PlayFi, degrading their wireless amp and speaker lines. Fortunately they could at least salvage some design and save some face by updating these components with AirPlay and selling as MartinLogan.

Last time Samsung launched an entirely new product category based on their R&D?

I think JBL M2/7-series/Synthesis SCL predate the purchase, so let’s go with that Lexicon hourglass speaker.

 

[preload]

You think that’s dumb? Consider these fiascos:

1) KEF releasing a wireless LS50 with no AirPlay, a self-own so mind-bogglingly and self-evidently asinine that they had to add a whole section to their sell literature justifying it. Just imagine - a fairly expensive “designer” speaker for people with disposable income, that doesn’t work with the computing hardware people who care about design and are willing to spend disposable income generally use? Fortunately this defect was remediated in LSX and LS50 Wireless II.

2) DTS releasing a half-baked wireless audio protocol (PlayFi) and not making it Mac compatible.

3) Paradigm hitching their wagon to PlayFi, degrading their wireless amp and speaker lines. Fortunately they could at least salvage some design and save some face by updating these components with AirPlay and selling as MartinLogan.

Good point. And how much of these "fiascos" do you suppose were a result of Apple refusing to cooperate, provide necessary information/API's/etc, or charging outrageous royalties? Do you really think Apple plays ball well with other companies?

 

[amirm]

So if I’m understanding correctly, the measurements in the review are unique to that particular room, and they would be different in another room due to room adaptation being active. In other words, the room wasn’t fully taken out of the equation as they normally would be with the Klippel.

The measurements show the full omni-directional dispersion of the speaker. That is what it is designed to do. What else it does is not documented and seemed to not be functional in my testing. Further, listening tests confirmed measurements even though the room was changed. So I say the tonality is represented quite well in NFS measurements.

 

[jhaider]

Good point. And how much of these "fiascos" do you suppose were a result of Apple refusing to cooperate, provide necessary information/API's/etc, or charging outrageous royalties?

I don’t know - and unless you have actual information perhaps best to keep quiet.

However, query: what’s the price difference between useless LS50 Wireless and the newer actually worth a damn one? Obviously there are other differences (“meta” disk) but did the price go up?

Do you really think Apple plays ball well with other companies?

Like any self-interested enterprise, I’m sure they make a case by case determination. Certainly there are many aftermarket products with AirPlay, MFi certification and so on. AppleTV serves competing music and video products.

I think what you’re really complaining about is that Apple expects aftermarket companies to meet certain standards and charges them to verify compliance (while allowing them to advertise same). I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have standards. You may disagree and that’s fine.

 

[preload]

I don’t know - and unless you have actual information perhaps best to keep quiet.

Oh please. Don’t pretend that In your 3 examples, a product manager said “hey let’s screw Apple by not making out product compatible.” If you don’t know how things work, perhaps best to keep quiet.

However, query: what’s the price difference between useless LS50 Wireless and the newer actually worth a damn one? Obviously there are other differences (“meta” disk) but did the price go up?

No idea, but my LSX does support airplay. The problem is that the analog input on the LSX is horribly designed and it picks up 60hz hum if you just look at it. Maybe Kef should have put less money/resources into Apple compatibility and instead paid an appropriate level of attention to an amazingly basic feature.

Like any self-interested enterprise, I’m sure they make a case by case determination. Certainly there are many aftermarket products with AirPlay, MFi certification and so on. AppleTV serves competing music and video products.

I think what you’re really complaining about is that Apple expects aftermarket companies to meet certain standards and charges them to verify compliance (while allowing them to advertise same). I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have standards. You may disagree and that’s fine.

So what you’re saying is that a product that wasn’t given access to Apple airplay is somehow substandard? Typical.

 

[jhaider]

Oh please. Don’t pretend that In your 3 examples, a product manager said “hey let’s screw Apple by not making out product compatible.” If you don’t know how things work, perhaps best to keep quiet.

Nobody feels the need to explain in their marketing materials why their wireless speaker doesn’t work with PlayFi…

 

[JohnBooty]

Good point. And how much of these "fiascos" do you suppose were a result of Apple refusing to cooperate, provide necessary information/API's/etc

They most definitely provide the technical information to support AirPlay audio in your own hardware devices:
https://mfi.apple.com/

or charging outrageous royalties?

You can't get the actual prices unless you're under NDA, but if you search around the "word on the street" is that once upon a time the royalty was $10 per unit and is now $4 per unit. I am not sure how reliable that figure is nor how it compares to fees charged for other comparable standards and protocols. One thing we can say for sure is that there are some pretty inexpensive devices that support AirPlay audio. This suggests that the fees are not too outrageous.

Here's Apple's list of current products. Please note that AirPlay has been around for over a decade. Lots of AirPlay devices were also sold in the past. I remember Pioneer had some really nice (relative to the rest of the market segment) Andrew Jones-branded models. I still use mine today.

https://www.apple.com/ios/home/accessories/#section-speaker

Do you really think Apple plays ball well with other companies?

When it's in their best interest, generally yes. By all indications, this is a pretty mature and successful licensing program.

Let me turn the question around. Do you really think Apple created the MFI licensing program because it... doesn't want folks to use AirPlay? Certainly the burden of proof would be on anybody suggesting that, despite Apple's mature and successful licensing program, that it does not play well in this regard.

 

[preload]

You can't get the actual prices unless you're under NDA, but if you search around the "word on the street" is that once upon a time the royalty was $10 per unit

$10 is pretty high, particularly when you consider the lengths by which companies will try to save 10 cents on a part.

and is now $4 per unit. I am not sure how reliable that figure is nor how it compares to fees charged for other comparable standards and protocols.

Well for starters:
Roon = $0 licensing
Bluetooth = $0.80 for 10,000 units ($8k flat rate)

Let me turn the question around. Do you really think Apple created the MFI licensing program because it... doesn't want folks to use AirPlay?

Never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[amirm]

When it's in their best interest, generally yes. By all indications, this is a pretty mature and successful licensing program.

Successful for Apple, sure. For the hardware ecosystem? No, they hate it. Why do you think everyone forces you to use the "Apple Camera Adapter" to connect a DAC dongle to iPhone instead of direct interface? They do that because they don't want to pay the high licensing fees and onerous Apple contracts. You can't just build what you want. You can only build what Apple wants you to build.

 

[Robbo99999]

Seeing as we're talking about how we feel about Apple, I'll say my viewpoint. I don't like Apple's ethos or products, they're too locked down and closed off in their own ecosystem, they're too expensive for the actual hardware you get and they're generally not user serviceable. I'm referring mainly to their computer side of the business, I'm a PC man so-to-speak. I also think the mobile phone side of their business is overpriced....I'd rather buy a cheap but capable Android phone and then eventually install a third party OS like Lineage to extend it's life. As an extreme I see Apple as a company dedicated to service rich / lazy non-hardware enthusiasts that are largely influenced by aesthetics & brand marketing. There is possibly an ease-of-use aspect to Apple products, maybe a set it & forget it ethos, and historically Macs were good for art & design work if I remember rightly so they certainly had appeal to certain industries where I think they did things better but I don't know if that's the case anymore. I do have an old ipod shuffle, and that is my only Apple product.....it's been a good product for what it was. Apple doesn't really fit with how I do things, but I don't hate them, and I don't rant about them....for instance I think this is about my only post I've ever written on my views on Apple.

 

[srsxmi]

Thanks Amir for a review of a difficult device that many folks are interested in.

I purchased mine as soon as it was announced and without auditioning it only to find that the bass was so pronounced it prevented me from turning it up very loud. Hopefully, your EQ mitigates it.

 

[carlob]

They do that because they don't want to pay the high licensing fees and onerous Apple contracts

As already said above the Mfi license is $4 per item. It used to be a % many years ago, then reduced to $10 flat per unit and from 2014 is $4 flat per unit.

 

[MZKM]

Seeing as we're talking about how we feel about Apple, I'll say my viewpoint. I don't like Apple's ethos or products, they're too locked down and closed off in their own ecosystem, they're too expensive for the actual hardware you get and they're generally not user serviceable. I'm referring mainly to their computer side of the business, I'm a PC man so-to-speak. I also think the mobile phone side of their business is overpriced....I'd rather buy a cheap but capable Android phone and then eventually install a third party OS like Lineage to extend it's life. As an extreme I see Apple as a company dedicated to service rich / lazy non-hardware enthusiasts that are largely influenced by aesthetics & brand marketing. There is possibly an ease-of-use aspect to Apple products, maybe a set it & forget it ethos, and historically Macs were good for art & design work if I remember rightly so they certainly had appeal to certain industries where I think they did things better but I don't know if that's the case anymore. I do have an old ipod shuffle, and that is my only Apple product.....it's been a good product for what it was. Apple doesn't really fit with how I do things, but I don't hate them, and I don't rant about them....for instance I think this is about my only post I've ever written on my views on Apple.

Maybe because I’m used to it, but I just don’t like Windows & Android.
Like I was helping someone yesterday with something on their Android phone, and I had to connect to the hotel’s Wi-Fi, I go to settings and there is only a toggle for on/off, it took me a second or two to guess that you had to click on it to go to the network list, the UI was bush league (and the haptic feedback when typing was annoying as hell). Maybe different skins are better, but with Apple the UI is pretty much identical from their cheapest phone to their flagship

 

[MZKM]

I don’t really know what the ideal room curve would look like. There are many. But you are correct IMO that there should be a reference for each review to compare against. Like the headphone reference curve.

In Olive’s patent for the preference rating, he states it’s likely that the ideal in-room curve does not exist and is based off the dispersion of the speaker. Plus different room dimensions likely lead themselves to performing better with wider/narrower dispersion speakers.

 

[Beershaun]

Any thoughts on how to measure the final in room performance of this device accurately? Should or be measured far field with rew or something at the listening position? The active DSP is intended to be inseparable from the performance of the device and a key innovation. I'd like to know how it performs as a complete unit in the final listening position.

 

[richard12511]

I hate voice commands because unnecessary noise angers me (I have autism)

I hate voice commands because of how unreliable they still are. I'd say they work about 90% of the time for me, but those times that they don't, it ends up being 10x slower than if you had just used your fingers to tell the device what you want. The times they work(which admittedly is most of the time), it's still only slightly faster than using me fingers. Finally they don't handle exception cases well at all.

 

[richard12511]

Minimal music, like female vocals + guitar or electronic ambient music, sounds excellent, whereas rock sounds like a blur. I can only guess as to why this is, but I assume that it has to do with that bouncing of the sound.

It could also have to do with distortion. My Google Nest has similar issues(blur with rock music), and afaik it's not omni in any way.

I think "fake" low end extension, like many of these devices have, comes at a cost.