Blind test: we have a volunteer!!!

[PierreV]

On the Karpman Drama Triangle,

Empirical observation: the term "triangle" correlates well with the term "drama" on audio sites.

 

[BrEpBrEpBrEpBrEp]

Empirical observation: the term "triangle" correlates well with the term "drama" on audio sites.

Okay, so it turns out this thread did still have at least one funny joke left in it.

Still, if we're interested in this test working, I think we should dial back on the psychoanalysis of those involved - that frankly seems to me like throwing fuel on the fire.

 

[seyl3r]

@amirm a while back, you measured the following device:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...und-3-in-1-out-xlr-audio-switch-review.11062/

Would that be suitable as a switcher? It might help cut down on a lot of the potential issues @Pio2001 brought up earlier.

I think so as well.

Wouldn't actually a setup suffice where GS and a third neutral person are sitting on a desk, separated by a dividing wall:
1. Left: GS with a headphone and control of music which is playing
2. Right: Neutral person with the above ABX switcher and three amps (connected and leveled).

There should be a livestream (at least for amir) filming everything from the side, slightly above that the audience can clearly see what's happening on the table.

For each run, GS has to talk about what he hears (ideally speed, harsh and stuff) and commit on Atom or Magnius playing. Before the next round, the system is in X mode, that music is running to GS headphone, so he can't hear what's going on. The neutral person may switch the connections (swap A and B) now.

Am I missing something?

 

[solderdude]

@amirm dose this guy have millions of YouTube subscribers?

Amir on YT = 15.3k subscribers
Golden Sound YT = 15.3k subscribers

exactly the same number... go figure

 

[BrEpBrEpBrEpBrEp]

I think so as well.

Wouldn't actually a setup suffice where GS and a third neutral person are sitting on a desk, separated by a dividing wall:
1. Left: GS with a headphone and control of music which is playing
2. Right: Neutral person with the above ABX switcher and three amps (connected and leveled).

There should be a livestream (at least for amir) filming everything from the side, slightly above that the audience can clearly see what's happening on the table.

For each run, GS has to talk about what he hears (ideally speed, harsh and stuff) and commit on Atom or Magnius playing. Before the next round, the system is in X mode, that music is running to GS headphone, so he can't hear what's going on. The neutral person may switch the connections (swap A and B) now.

Am I missing something?

As has been mentioned before, A and B need to be decided by random number, rather than swapped every time. Also as previously mentioned, it's good to keep the delay between rounds constant, so the subject can't tell if a swap has occurred or not. Therefore, they should be disconnected and reconnected even if they are not swapped.

IMO it would be ideal to first give his subjective impressions of A, then turn the switcher to B and give his impressions of that, then go back and forth as much as needed before making a final decision on which is which. This might address some of @amirm 's concerns regarding checking for specific differences in sound.

 

[PierreV]

Amir on YT = 15.3k subscribers
Golden Sound YT = 15.3k subscribers

exactly the same number... go figure

Let's not be misled by measurements

 

[solderdude]

Indeed, while they measure the same in amount of subscribers the content can easily be told apart, even blind.

 

[BrEpBrEpBrEpBrEp]

Indeed, while they measure the same in amount of subscribers the content can easily be told apart, even blind.

That's not an appropriate way to tell. You need to conduct a double-blind test, where they themselves are not aware of who is who.

 

[TK750]

I'm really baffled by some people saying 'both sides' etc here. When to me it is very clear one side is pushing the vendetta in this thread and the other is doing the best they can to try and accommodate? Someone said something critical/untrue about you on the internet? Big deal, a fragile ego has really sucked the interest and life out of this potential experiment.

 

[BrEpBrEpBrEpBrEp]

I'm really baffled by some people saying 'both sides' etc here. When to me it is very clear one side is pushing the vendetta in this thread and the other is doing the best they can to try and accommodate? Someone said something critical/untrue about you on the internet? Big deal, a fragile ego has really sucked the interest and life out of this potential experiment.

I think everyone's really trying hard to focus this thread back on the test itself, rather than pointless litigation of who said what and who is the worse person.

 

[solderdude]

Someone said something critical/untrue about you on the internet? Big deal, a fragile ego has really sucked the interest and life out of this potential experiment.

Yes I'm going to do the video regardless.

And I proposed and plan to do that very thing. I have the two amps he compared in the video. I plan to capture the output and perform listening tests. This was proposed on page one of this thread and I supported it. I could even conduct the test live for local people.

 

[TK750]

I think everyone's really trying hard to focus this thread back on the test itself, rather than pointless litigation of who said what and who is the worse person.

All for it

 

[TK750]

@solderdude Sorry it won't seem to let me reply, I'm guessing as your post is all quotes or something?

Yes it's good that each plan to do it anyway, however surely a collaborative test that both agree on would be much better? I can't help but feel that both doing it individually is just going to reaffirm each individuals/followers beliefs? People will claim Golden's test was flawed or there was some sort of foul play going on (assuming he gets it right). Amir does not claim/expect there to be any difference and therefore it is highly unlikely he will say there is, if by some surprise he hears one or won't listen carefully enough etc (I realise many believe there isn't so of course he won't, but hopefully you get what I mean).

 

[JSmith]

I don't understand why you are an apologist for Schiit, or a defender of Schiit's reputation.

What is this rubbish? Amir was quite hard on a Schiit product some time ago, with good cause based on the data. People here and elsewhere were complaining how it changed their sales quite a bit. They responded by developing better products that then measured much better and their market share increased again. So what you are saying makes no sense and is just another silly attempt to discredit ASR and Amir. Play another card peoples... this one is really old hat. Just because it looks like a duck, doesn't mean it quacks like one.



JSmith

 

[solderdude]

I'm guessing as your post is all quotes or something?

correct. They both intend to go forward and interest from all parties (incl. ASR members and wherever it is picked up on) is still there.
It just turned a bit nasty and personal here and there. This always happens when there is passion about a subject and humans are involved.

I am sure once the test is done and Amir has performed his testing both will have something to say about the results and that will lead to another thread where other folks can comment on the performed test.
I really can't wait for both tests and the conclusions that will be drawn. Popcorn lovers are guaranteed to see some firework yet again. As long as it remains civil I am all for it.

First let's see if the test conditions can be agreed upon.

 

[Dani_G]

I've seen the term "suitability of devices" come up a number of times, and within the context of this topic I get why it's relevant, but it's important to also consider a broader perspective here.

A device is considered "suitable" when Amir's standard set of measurements show no audible anomalies in any of the tested parameters. But is this conclusive? Are all the available inputs/outputs tested in each possible configuration? Are there any detectable vulnerabilities that may be a concern for potential users? Are there any meaningful differences in measurements a 120V and 240V that could indicate a potential difference in performance between countries/continents? And the list goes on..

The reality is that the level of scrutiny with each past review hasn't been very consistent. So a lot of devices that are currently rated as "audibly transparent" by Amir's standards could in theory be subject to oversight of an important parameter. And then we still have the question of "is this really enough?" remaining. So yes, it's still perfectly possible in theory that 2 amps (or DACs) that have both been rated "audibly transparent" by Amir, to sound different enough for a person to tell these apart successfully in a properly controlled double-blind test.

If @GoldenOne succeeds in his blind tests beyond reasonable doubt, perhaps we should start questioning the reliability/consistency of the methods of hardware performance testing, and consider exploring further to search for the missing link(s).

 

[Iving]

There is $1000 on the line plus reputation of schiit and its Magnius amp.

I don't understand why you are an apologist for Schiit, or a defender of Schiit's reputation.

What is this rubbish? Amir was quite hard on a Schiit product some time ago, with good cause based on the data. People here and elsewhere were complaining how it changed their sales quite a bit. They responded by developing better products that then measured much better and their market share increased again. So what you are saying makes no sense and is just another silly attempt to discredit ASR and Amir. Play another card peoples... this one is really old hat. Just because it looks like a duck, doesn't mean it quacks like one. JSmith

I refer *only* to what has been said on *this thread*. My case is that the blind test project in hand is contaminated by combative nonsense - and it is.

Apparently you are sensitive to a broader history. That has nothing to do with what I am saying here.

fwiw I have no interest in discrediting anyone. I *am* seeking to "discredit" the present approach/dynamic in so far as it feigns scientific merit or purports to be constructive on any human level.

If my remarks help evolve the discussion towards an even more fundamental reset, I wouldn't exactly cry about it.

If they were, even a little bit, to help provoke more dignified and properly scientific debates - especially any crossing silos amongst us - well then I would be overjoyed.

 

[JSmith]

Apparently you are sensitive to a broader history.

Yeah I tend to look into things a bit before I make unfounded comments... maybe that's just me.

I refer *only* to what has been said on *this thread*.

Surely it is folly to judge a persons credibility on a few posts in one thread? YMMV...



JSmith

 

[Iving]

Yeah I tend to look into things a bit before I make unfounded comments... maybe that's just me.

Surely it is folly to judge a persons credibility on a few posts in one thread? YMMV...



JSmith

I haven't done that.

 

[JSmith]

I haven't done that.

You accused Amir of being an apologist for Schiit… I don't see what else that could be interpreted as. Either you're not standing by your own comment and now trying to obfuscate the issue, or you may need to clarify further.

I have no interest in discrediting anyone.

So don't then.



JSmith