Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[beaRA]

Mere mortals can get most of the sound quality of Trinnov if they get an Emotiva or HTP-1 and then put in the sweat required for REW room measurements, proper speaker placement and subwoofer/bass optimization.

Or a Denon X3700H in pre-amp mode + miniDSP 10x10 + miniDSP 2x4 for us peasants.

 

[Dimifoot]

Mere mortals can get most of the sound quality of Trinnov if they get an Emotiva or HTP-1 and then put in the sweat required for REW room measurements, proper speaker placement and subwoofer/bass optimization.

I also own an Emotiva XMC 1 (now in my second system), and before I got the Trinnov I had spent many hours with REW and bass optimization -and my room is acoustically treated.

I didn’t get most of the sound quality of the Trinnov, even before going into depths with the Trinnov Optimizer. Just using a simple downwards target curve on the Trinnov the subjective sound quality improvement was significant.

 

[Sancus]

For 100 inch screen 10K lumens would be way too bright. The Lumens required as screen size increases isn't linear. You need more lumens for a smaller screen relative to its size versus a large screen due to how much of our field of vision it fills from a normal viewing distance

Dolby Cinema for example is graded to 100 nits and they are plenty bright on the large screen they are projecting on.

For a 100 inch screen you'd probably want 3500 lumens max depending on the screen gain.

You're missing the fact that sufficient output to produce average scene brightness is not the same as sufficient output to produce highlights. 3500 lumens is nowhere near enough to produce decent HDR highlights, all you need to do is try a typical projector of that output and see how bad it is lol. There's no such thing as "too bright" either, as output can always be controlled, however a projector can't focus its light output more greatly on one part of the image than another.

Sony makes a 10K lumen projector that can produce 600-700 nits HDR on a 120" screen size, but I'm sure they don't know what they're doing!

 

[Costas EAR]

I also own an Emotiva XMC 1 (now in my second system), and before I got the Trinnov I had spent many hours with REW and bass optimization -and my room is acoustically treated.

I didn’t get most of the sound quality of the Trinnov, even before going into depths with the Trinnov Optimizer. Just using a simple downwards target curve on the Trinnov the subjective sound quality improvement was significant.

I was there.

He owned emotiva xmc 1 for a few years, and he has spent hundreds and thousands of hours with measurements and fine tuning and more measurements and more fine tuning and so on.

And one evening, trinnov with a few measurements and by just applying a target curve, made us wondering if emotiva was broken..

The perceived sound quality achieved in a few minutes in a well treated room with pretty decent speakers (goldenear semi actives, with fine measurements and no real tonal issues) was mind blowing.

Well, in audiosciencereview measurements, emotiva is far better than "not broken", go figure.

IMHO, trinnov dsp is way better than Dirac. That is the obvious answer. Which one between them is using a better dac output board, doesn't really matter.

 

[Spocko]

I was there.

He owned emotiva xmc 1 for a few years, and he has spent hundreds and thousands of hours with measurements and fine tuning and more measurements and more fine tuning and so on.

And one evening, trinnov with a few measurements and by just applying a target curve, made us wondering if emotiva was broken..

The perceived sound quality achieved in a few minutes in a well treated room with pretty decent speakers (goldenear semi actives, with fine measurements and no real tonal issues) was mind blowing.

Well, in audiosciencereview measurements, emotiva is far better than "not broken", go figure.

IMHO, trinnov dsp is way better than Dirac. That is the obvious answer. Which one between them is using a better dac output board, doesn't really matter.

This long frustrating journey that you and @Dimifoot went through is exactly what I am trying to avoid - and more importantly, time is money for me, and this is a business expense

 

[sarumbear]

Amazing. 100% testing but 0% listening, still recommended. Who needs ears, if we have a test bench?
Not to say, that tests seems to repeat, and show a few more dB here, some less THD+N there, etc'.
I'm going to pawn my ears. No more need. It might worth a few cents...
Does AP has some implants to replace the natural device?

You are in the wrong forum.

 

[sarumbear]

This is my system controlled by Trinnov Altitude32 (32 channel edition, not all channels in use). 9.4.9
View attachment 132494

The speakers may be worth more than the house...

 

[Chrispy]

Chrispy, what's the thing about having a "dedicated" HT. ?

A real purpose-built home theater room with projection etc....but I don't have one so not too tempted.

 

[TGB]

The speakers may be worth more than the house...

Current value, no
Paid value, yes

Setup:
2 x B&W 802 D3
1 x B&W HTM1 D3
2 x B&W 803 D2
2 x B&W 805 D2
2 x B&W SCMS
9 x Piega AP 1.2
2 x B&W DB1
2 x Paradigm Persona Sub
Processor: Trinnov Altitude32
Amplifiers: Trinnov Amplitude8, Trinnov Amplitude8M, Bryston 4B SST2
Screen: LG OLED CX 77"
Sources: Oppo UDP 203, OSMC Vero 4K+, Apple TV 4K, Roon
Other: Philips Hue HDMI sync box, Philips Hue Gradient Lightstrip (all lights Philips Hue).

 

[wseroyer]

Mere mortals can get most of the sound quality of Trinnov if they get an Emotiva or HTP-1 and then put in the sweat required for REW room measurements, proper speaker placement and subwoofer/bass optimization.

This is true FOMO, miniDSP can give you a lot of the Trinnov's bass management capabilities also. BTW I love your channel, it's my favorite You Tube channel to watch and i've been loving the live streams you've been doing with b the installer, Techno dad, and whisper status 74. I'd love for you guys to have @amirm on the show sometime soon.

 

[dualazmak]

Mere mortals can get most of the sound quality of Trinnov if they get an Emotiva or HTP-1 and then put in the sweat required for REW room measurements, proper speaker placement and subwoofer/bass optimization.

I agree, you are right, if you are focusing on pure stereo audio-dedicated system, for which I concentrate my interests and efforts.

In my case, I took another approach of multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier system using software digital XO-EQ "EKIO" and multichannel DAC (OKTO DAC8PRO).

As @Scott Borduin wrote here, "For a stereo multi-driver application like you mention, there is probably little advantage in the Trinnov." This drawback aspect is now further enhanced by the rather disappointing objectively measured data on "sound quality" given by amirm compared to other superior "blue zone" DACs including OKTO DAC8PRO I am using.

Now, I know well that Trinnov would be really great in high-end AV-HT building, but at least for me, I have little interest in that world.
Consequently, now I understand that I would be better to retire from this thread.

 

[Spocko]

I agree, you are right, if you are focusing on pure stereo audio-dedicated system, for which I concentrate my interests and efforts.

In my case, I took another approach of multichannel multi-driver multi-amplifier system using software digital XO-EQ "EKIO" and multichannel DAC (OKTO DAC8PRO).

As @Scott Borduin wrote here, "For a stereo multi-driver application like you mention, there is probably little advantage in the Trinnov." This drawback aspect is now further enhanced by the rather disappointing objectively measured data on "sound quality" given by amirm compared to other superior "blue zone" DACs including OKTO DAC8PRO I am using.

Now, I know well that Trinnov would be really great in high-end AV-HT building, but at least for me, I have little interest in that world.
Consequently, now I understand that I would be better to retire from this thread.

Yep, stereo is a far simpler beast to figure out, less moving parts allowing you to focus on the core nature and character of the music whereas cinema multi-channel is all about immersion in a world of flying bullets and ambient sounds where the suspension of reality is a far more important objective than the last word in SINAD or distortion.

 

[Lsc]

Mere mortals can get most of the sound quality of Trinnov if they get an Emotiva or HTP-1 and then put in the sweat required for REW room measurements, proper speaker placement and subwoofer/bass optimization.

Based on Amir’s measurements one would think…but the Trinnov owners are saying otherwise.

Current value, no
Paid value, yes

Setup:
2 x B&W 802 D3
1 x B&W HTM1 D3
2 x B&W 803 D2
2 x B&W 805 D2
2 x B&W SCMS
9 x Piega AP 1.2
2 x B&W DB1
2 x Paradigm Persona Sub
Processor: Trinnov Altitude32
Amplifiers: Trinnov Amplitude8, Trinnov Amplitude8M, Bryston 4B SST2
Screen: LG OLED CX 77"
Sources: Oppo UDP 203, OSMC Vero 4K+, Apple TV 4K, Roon
Other: Philips Hue HDMI sync box, Philips Hue Gradient Lightstrip (all lights Philips Hue).

love your priorities!!! With a system like that the Trinnov seems very appropriate.

Very nice!!!

 

[wseroyer]

Yep, stereo is a far simpler beast to figure out, less moving parts allowing you to focus on the core nature and character of the music whereas cinema multi-channel is all about immersion in a world of flying bullets and ambient sounds where the suspension of reality is a far more important objective than the last word in SINAD or distortion.

I've been listening to a lot of ATMOS music on my Apple TV on tidal lately and I've got to say I really like it, a lot of new albums are being mixed in it, I think surround sound music might actually take off this time because of it.

 

[wseroyer]

Or a Denon X3700H in pre-amp mode + miniDSP 10x10 + miniDSP 2x4 for us peasants.

LOL, that's going to be my exact set up if Denon decides to start making receivers again anytime soon, i've been waiting a month now.

 

[TGB]

I've been listening to a lot of ATMOS music on my Apple TV on tidal lately and I've got to say I really like it, a lot of new albums are being mixed in it, I think surround sound music might actually take off this time because of it.

Atmos on Tidal is based on DD+ (if my info is correct), also most of the music is not mixed in Atmos - they are upmixed and stored as Atmos. Some mixes sound great, most sound like crap. I enjoy a original good Atmos mix, but prefer stereo if the music is not originally mixed in Atmos.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I get that, but what I don’t get is why people would want concierge service. If you are as “into” home theater as to even know what Trinnov is, you are probably “into” setting up your home theater rather than relying on others to do it for you.

That’s what I don’t understand—home theater enthusiasts who don’t want to know anything about how to operate their equipment, and instead pay an installer to remotely administer it. Talk about a first-world problem,

That is actually a tiny minority of the high end market. Most people who want a really good home theater and are spending this kind of money have little desire to play with it. They just want it all to work. The enthusiast market you are referring to feels a lot larger than it is. We put ourselves in an echo chamber. In reality, the majority of people buying this stuff don’t really care. It doesn’t mean they don’t appreciate sound. Some of these guys are Hollywood movie producers and actors, many of them know good sound. They just are too busy to mess with it.

a lot of the guys into this specific device for its tweakability are really just mucking things up. I redid one and had the client argue with me for a week that I didn’t do it right because I didn’t delve into all these custom settings he learned about on AVS. I ended up doing a special training session with Trinnov to ask more detailed questions on what exactly those features did. My client in Israel also wanted me to use those settings to get the most out of it. What I learned was that most of those features are only necessary is very particular setups (of which neither client has nor would most users). It’s standard form is basically as good as is needed for most. A lot of people are just going to town with this thing and making their systems sound worse.

As for what you get here compared to the cheaper ones. It’s flexibility and reliability. Performance is clearly about the same. Their room correction is certainly different. Better? Who knows. But it’s a lot more flexible. However the major flexibility improvements are in the bass management and crossover/eq section. You can’t use the cheaper ones as the DSP front end of an active system. In addition, it’s a rock solid platform at this point. I haven’t had any issues at shows or client homes. The others? Well I reviewed the HTP-1 originally for Audioholics and then handed it to James Larsen to finish up. We had a lot of reliability problems with it. It performed great, sounded great, but I wouldn’t call it all that reliable. I also have one had clients return or sell their HTP-1 after numerous issues. The Emotiva stuff left us high and dry at a show once. We couldn’t get it working and had to switch in a Storm processors last minute. That was the same month the RMC-1 came out so I will give them a break. I know it had some birthing pains. But my experience has been those aren’t similar in reliability. If they are as good, I would need to see it before I would feel confident installing it for someone.

honestly before I started doing any of this professionally I didn’t get why pros used these crazy gear. It’s too expensive. It’s not any better. I had the same thought. But you know, in the grand scheme of a $150,000+ install, if you find yourself getting yelled at, bad comments online, customer wanting their money back, having to spend more to fix the mistakes, you too would switch to the higher end gear. Those clients don’t care about the saving and you are saving yourself a big headache. For the clients in the market for a $5k or less processor and a much lower budget home theater , I’ll happily set it up for them but I leave those purchasing decisions up to them so I don’t take heat for problems.

At the moment I don’t sell any processors, but if I brought on a line, it would likely be the Trinnov. My plan right now is to review it, see if I like it enough to carry it, and then decide if I want to become a dealer. I have only set them up so far, I would like to live with them for a bit to be sure I think it’s worth standing behind. The ones I setup I didn’t sell, but I am the one doing the customer service for those and so far it’s been fine. Like I said, I can make changes anywhere.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Atmos on Tidal is based on DD+ (if my info is correct), also most of the music is not mixed in Atmos - they are upmixed and stored as Atmos. Some mixes sound great, most sound like crap. I enjoy a original good Atmos mix, but prefer stereo if the music is not originally mixed in Atmos.

Your info is correct. Though I don’t think the DD+ is what causes them to sound like crap. It’s just the poor remixing. I think we are today in a world similar to stereo in the 60’s. It’s a new toy and engineers need to figure out how to use it well. I’ve heard some really great mixes that I enjoyed quite a bit. But I agree, a lot of it is pretty bad.

 

[Andysu]

Your info is correct. Though I don’t think the DD+ is what causes them to sound like crap. It’s just the poor remixing. I think we are today in a world similar to stereo in the 60’s. It’s a new toy and engineers need to figure out how to use it well. I’ve heard some really great mixes that I enjoyed quite a bit. But I agree, a lot of it is pretty bad.

Pretty dire bad is what atmos sound mixes for new movies and often older movies with near field remix atmos to sell old movies cos no one is gonna buy a, 4k disc without a rubbish lousy atmos upmix, now. Expect me of course as I have just about had enough of these cheap rubbish re-recording mixers doing rubbish mixes now.
Older days no not older, younger days was far better than the older days ahead with rubbish atmos. atmos can't even do discrete below underneath surround. bookshelf speakers that are laying on the floor. These atmos XYZ, movies are waste of my listening time.
Last 4k I brought was 4 or 5 months ago now and between that I brought few Laserdiscs cos I have just about had it now, with these near field atmos mixes.

 

[Dimifoot]

There are many wonderfully recorded-mixed Atmos pure audio Blu rays. In the last months I have bought dozens.
There is no comparison with Stereo music in enjoyment, its like comparing black and white movies with todays 4K/HDR.

As far as streaming Atmos content: I haven't tried Apple Atmos mixes, but I am not so happy with Tidal Atmos. I have stopped using it. I would rather upmix the stereo version with Auro3D (Automatic) on the Trinnov.

It might be the DD+, but there is a huge difference with Pure Audio discs.