Minidsp DDRC-88A Dirac Multichannel DSP Review

[hollis]

I run a Minidsp 88D, so I am in the full digital chain camp. Right now 100% in a 2ch stereo world.

Full path:
- tower win10 PC
- Matrix X-SPDIF-2 USB to AES (stereo)
- Minidsp 88D AES input, crossovers, Dirac 3.0, AES output
- Lynx Aurora 8 D/A
- 7ch Outlaw 7140
- 4x self powered Rythmik subs

The Aurora also has A/D, so I run a turntable into it as well as a "guest" Airport Express back into the spare 88D AES inputs. One great advantage of this setup is that there is no input switching. Everything is just turned on all the time (unless I build config presets to turn things on and off). I dont know any other Minidsp device besides the 88D and 88D where you can use all the input channels at once.

This lets me run 3-way mains, with a front sub and a rear sub. Pretty excellent for music, but I am finding mixed results with Netflix/Plex/HBO. Some of the stereo mixdowns are rather crap. So now I am thinking I may drop down to full range mains, then add a center and surrounds.

The UDIO-8 usb box and the Lynx AES16 pcie card are the top contenders to get 8ch out of my PC and into the 88D (bypassing the Matrix). I allready bought the Lynx AES16 but got burned on PCIE standards, it doesnt fit with my motherboard. I am also likely to get burned on Atmos decoding or other digital video standards (which I am only now just starting to read about). The gap from 2ch to 5.1 is rather large, its not for the feint of heart.

 

[Chromatischism]

I allready bought the Lynx AES16 but got burned on PCIE standards, it doesnt fit with my motherboard.

Their website says that card was discontinued in 2014 and replaced with a PCI-Express version:

https://www.lynxstudio.com/products/#pci

 

[hollis]

.... discontinued in 2014...

Correct! I saw a $200 ebay listing and got stupid. Knew it was too good to be true.

The main question I am struggling with is, will either that new card, or the UDIO-8 have any advantage with surround codecs. Or, if both need just linear PCM, then it would be 100% on JRiver or the media app.

 

[Chromatischism]

Would something like this work?

Or this

 

[voodooless]

Would something like this work?

It would if you have the room to spare, so no other cards in the way since the PCI slot is angled. Secondly, your casing might not agree either.

 

[LumbermanSVO]

I am the use case for something like this, but I am also an edge case.

I am building a 5.2 system with fully active 3-ways for the 5. I have the amps, speakers, sources, and AVR, I just need processing.

Three of these would get me the processing for a fairly reasonable price. One for the fronts, one for the rears, and one for the center channel and subs.

At the moment I have two APL 1012's in car chassis in my racks handling the front and rear crossover/EQ duty. They aren't the right form factor, and only have RCA in/out. Plus, one will eventually go into one of my cars. So my options are rackmount 1012's or the DDRC-88A's. The 1012's are twice the price, and have flexibility than the DDRC, but I gain 4096 FIR taps for each in and out.

I've thought about a PC solution, I'd have all the problems listed above, plus volume control to deal with. I also don't want to spend days/weeks/months getting all the bugs worked out.

 

[hollis]

Would something like this work?

Or this

I think something like that second one is definitely worth a try!

 

[voodooless]

I think something like that second one is definitely worth a try!

No, his PC has Express, and the card is PCI.. so he needs the first one

 

[Chromatischism]

No, his PC has Express, and the card is PCI.. so he needs the first one

You're right. I just pasted links for the first two things I found with Google for ideas. I'd suggest doing your own research

 

[hollis]

A sad day... back to research!

 

[somebodyelse]

A sad day... back to research!

Case mod, or external enclosure? There are a variety of extenders and bridges available so you can mix and match or go all in one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Eff...er-Card-Converter-Adapter-for-PC/153981786611
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Mini-...onverter-USB3-0-Cbale-Power-Wire/153390107456
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-Ex...-Adapter-Card-With-USB-3-0-Cable/292397479187

 

[DWPress]

I've been using a miniDSP 4x10 for about 10 years in a 2 channel stack as the active XO for 3-way speakers and 3 subs. Initially I tried analog input but quickly went to digital feeding it now with a Topping D10 to eliminate the additional AD conversion. As an active XO tool it is amazingly flexible and intuitive once you've figured out the GUI and its possibilities.

In recent years I've graduated from iTunes playback to Roon and JRiver to use the additional DSP power of those apps and once again took things to another level again working further with REW and creating impulses from Rephase and Sonarworks so far. Since JRiver for Mac doesn't include the WDM input option I've begun playing with other options to implement the DSP on a system wide (computer) level like SoundSource from Rogue Amoeba which can implement VST and AU plugins for all inputs/apps as there are quite a few good reverbs that can take advantage of the impulse corrections.

Next step is I've acquired a Motu Ultralite AVB to go along with my Ultralite MK3 and am trying to get them to play nicely together to eliminate replace the miniDSP hardware from the stack and simultaneously improve the DA and AD conversions for sources and output and expand beyond 8 channels.

I realize that most looking at this thread are into a multichannel application. I'm continually amazed how we each adapt and tailor the hardware/software tools we have at our disposal to accomplish what we want to do. Hardcore ASR readers seem to be trying to push the tech envelope more than most - put me on the list of those who want a digital preamp that doesn't exist yet!

 

[ernestcarl]

I've been using a miniDSP 4x10 for about 10 years in a 2 channel stack as the active XO for 3-way speakers and 3 subs. Initially I tried analog input but quickly went to digital feeding it now with a Topping D10 to eliminate the additional AD conversion. As an active XO tool it is amazingly flexible and intuitive once you've figured out the GUI and its possibilities.

In recent years I've graduated from iTunes playback to Roon and JRiver to use the additional DSP power of those apps and once again took things to another level again working further with REW and creating impulses from Rephase and Sonarworks so far. Since JRiver for Mac doesn't include the WDM input option I've begun playing with other options to implement the DSP on a system wide (computer) level like SoundSource from Rogue Amoeba which can implement VST and AU plugins for all inputs/apps as there are quite a few good reverbs that can take advantage of the impulse corrections.

Next step is I've acquired a Motu Ultralite AVB to go along with my Ultralite MK3 and am trying to get them to play nicely together to eliminate replace the miniDSP hardware from the stack and simultaneously improve the DA and AD conversions for sources and output and expand beyond 8 channels.

I realize that most looking at this thread are into a multichannel application. I'm continually amazed how we each adapt and tailor the hardware/software tools we have at our disposal to accomplish what we want to do. Hardcore ASR readers seem to be trying to push the tech envelope more than most - put me on the list of those who want a digital preamp that doesn't exist yet!

Well, I'm still waiting for a 5.1.2-4 or 7.1.2-4 atmos & DTS-X processor preamp with balanced XLR outs that doesn't cost at least $3,000.

 

[DWPress]

Well, just ordered a Dac8 Pro which gets me a lot poorer but also a lot closer to what my ideal pre would be. At least multichannel is something I've no interest in so that makes things a lot simpler for me. Good luck manifesting your dream gear everyone!

 

[tifune]

I run a Minidsp 88D, so I am in the full digital chain camp. Right now 100% in a 2ch stereo world.

Full path:
- tower win10 PC
- Matrix X-SPDIF-2 USB to AES (stereo)
- Minidsp 88D AES input, crossovers, Dirac 3.0, AES output
- Lynx Aurora 8 D/A
- 7ch Outlaw 7140
- 4x self powered Rythmik subs

How are you fairing with this setup? This is very similar to what I would like to do - 2 zones of 2.1 + 1 zone 2.1 w sub in-line from a single HTPC. The 88D looks like the simplest choice

Do you feel the Matrix was worth it? Currently the Matrix 2's are $435 new and that's a tough pill for me to swallow when they offer no specific details to justify such cost. Also, the fact they offer $140 "hifi USB cables" as an add-on is certainly off-putting.

 

[hollis]

How are you fairing with this setup?

Been doing great! "upgraded" from my 3-way active rig to, "full range" line array as mains. At 8' tall and a -3db point of 20hz they are pretty impressive, but I only made it a few months before adding the subs back

Right now I am using the 8, 88d outputs for:
- main L R
- rear sub, dual 15" sealed
- aux sub, Dirac tuned with it off, but I turn it up on some albums or movies
- flat stereo output to the headphones
- last two empty

Do you feel the Matrix was worth it? Currently the Matrix 2's are $435 new and that's a tough pill for me to swallow when they offer no specific details to justify such cost. Also, the fact they offer $140 "hifi USB cables" as an add-on is certainly off-putting.

Nope

I liked the Matrix a little more than the Gustard U16 when run straight into my headphone DAC. The 88D inputs are async, so whatever you send into it is going to get reclocked anyway. I could not distinguish any differences between the Matirx, U12, or U16 feeding the 88D. The Matrix is usb powered, so it makes for cleaner cabling in my rack. Thats pretty much why its still there.

For 2.1 your biggest issue is getting that .1 LFE channel into it. You would need the Udio-8 or a multi channel USB-AES (or SPDIF) box.

There is also a Hosa optical-AES box ($60 used). That could take the optical out of your computer (or tv) and get it into the 88D. That will be your cheapest 2ch bet.

Let us know what your results are!

 

[tusing]

Conclusions
[...] Sadly, you can't do better than a good AVR or AV Processor

Great review, I enjoyed reading it.

I'm planning my next home theater setup. I have been doing some research and I think this specific statement isn't actually true.

Essentially, the DDRC-88A with the DDRC-88BM software plugin offers not only Dirac but a multi-subwoofer bass control solution (Multi-Sub Optimizer/MSO), which gives it an advantage over a good AVR with Dirac alone. The next cheapest AVR with multi-sub capability (namely, Dirac Live Bass Control) is the Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 - with DLBC, it will run you $4500.

And a huge advantage of the DDRC-88A is that when your AVR ages to the point it doesn't support modern video formats (HDMI 2.1, anyone?), you can just get the cheapest AVR with pre-outs that does! This means no shelling out for another $4500 'premium' Dirac/DLBC AVR every time the HDMI spec is overhauled! I didn't see this benefit highlighted in the review either, but perhaps it is obvious - I am new to the home theater world.

So today, if you're entering the HT world and want a Dirac solution, the Dirac 'performance hierarchy' something like this:

1. ~$500: AVRs without Dirac (i.e. Audessey or other solutions)
2. ~$900: AVRs with Dirac but without multi-sub bass control (i.e. the upcoming Onkyo/Pioneer HDMI 2.1 AVRs)
   • +$250 for a MiniDSP 2x4 HD to run Multi-Sub Optimizer
3. ~$2100: DDRC-88A ($1000) + DDRC-88BM ($100) + a good power amp (i.e. the ASR-recommended Emotiva A-500, $500, x2 for >5 passive channels) + a cheap AVR with pre-outs ($500)
4. ~$5000: Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 ($4000, ASR review) + Dirac Live Bass Control ($500) + 5-channel power amp ($500)

The third solution almost definitely is the most flexible and cheapest in the long run:

• Because you've centralized the 'expensive' part (Dirac w/ bass control), the running upgrade cost becomes $500 for a new AVR as opposed to $4500. It also gets you a power amp, which is nice.
• Unlike the second or fourth solution, you don't have to re-calibrate Dirac every time you get a new AVR.

Now, the question is whether Dirac Live Bass Control actually is the extra $4k over the 2x4 MSO or $3k over the DDRC-88A+DDRC-88BM setup? And I think the answer is 'no' - if you look through AVSForum, you'll see tons of people actually using their MiniDSP 2x4 for bass control on their $4000 HTP-1s instead of Dirac Live Bass Control. In fact, one member's measurements show no improvement of DLBC (red) over the miniDSP MSO/multi-subwoofer (blue) solution for multiple listening positions:

So the extra $2500-3500 initial cost of the HTP-1, alongside the much higher rolling cost ($4500 vs $500), just seems to buys you an easier calibration experience (minutes instead of hours). Which, hey, might be worth it to some!

Anyways, I hope this proves informative to anyone looking into a new home theater setup. To me, at least, this highlights that for most enthusiasts, the MiniDSP 2x4 HD w/ MSO or the DDRC-88A+DDRC-88BM routes are probably more sensible in a world of overpriced Dirac AVRs that measure terribly. Let's be honest, the main reason people are shelling out $4500+ for many of these AVRs is just Dirac/DLBC. Otherwise, they often measure worse than AVRs a fourth of the price, and it seems like miniDSP has provided a much more cost-effective alternative that has flown under most people's radars.

P.S., some interesting things I didn't see covered:

• Like most receivers, the DDRC-88A has bass management capability
• It is apparently possible to use two DDRC-88A units if you need multiple channels (i.e. Atmos), according to this guide by AVSForum member kbarnes701.
• According to MiniDSP, you only need one channel for multiple subs, which means you can do, say, a 7.4 setup with only one DDRC-88A

 

[Chromatischism]

bass management

I'd remove references to "bass management" as that is a distinct thing (that all AVR's have) from Bass Control, which is a feature of Dirac Live.

Otherwise good points.

 

[Chromatischism]

Let's be honest, the main reason people are shelling out $4500+ for many of these AVRs is just Dirac/DLBC.

I never understood that. You may or may not get better results than Audyssey which the best version can be had for $999, and to boot you get a great AVR from Denon. If you have less than three subs, you don't even need a MiniDSP unless you can't achieve ideal sub placement or some other unique situation.

 

[tusing]

I'd remove references to "bass management" as that is a distinct thing (that all AVR's have) from Bass Control, which is a feature of Dirac Live.

Otherwise good points.

Thanks, edited.

I never understood that. You may or may not get better results than Audyssey which the best version can be had for $999, and to boot you get a great AVR from Denon. If you have less than three subs, you don't even need a MiniDSP unless you can't achieve ideal sub placement or some other unique situation.

I think, actually, many people are in a situation where their room is too awkwardly shaped for Audessey and they can't move their subs or treat their room much (aesthetic reasons, WAF, etc.) In fact, I'd wager that this is a huge part of the market for Dirac. If you have a 'reasonably' constructed home theater with subwoofer placement flexibility, then I agree, Audessey would be just fine.