Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[Spocko]

There is also in the lower price range just as good, if not better service than Trinnov, company Nubert is an example of this.

If only the USA had manufacturers like this - are they planning to come to the U.S.?

 

[Spocko]

I get that, but what I don’t get is why people would want concierge service. If you are as “into” home theater as to even know what Trinnov is, you are probably “into” setting up your home theater rather than relying on others to do it for you.

That’s what I don’t understand—home theater enthusiasts who don’t want to know anything about how to operate their equipment, and instead pay an installer to remotely administer it. Talk about a first-world problem,

You can be "into" home theater experience without wanting to deal with the headaches of (1) sub crawl (2) speaker selection, installation, (3) room correction, (4) AVR setup - this would be most people who don't hang out on ASR! "We want the most amazing home theater sound and we'll pay you $5,000 to make sure everything works - thank you!"

 

[Spocko]

Ok so here is one question if Trinnov was $5,000 would they take over the market?

Trinnov is priced just for the top 1% of Home Theaters enthousiaste!

Monoprice HTP-1 is $4,000 and it is indeed popular among many enthusiasts but requires much internet research and browsing of user forums to get everything to work right.

 

[amirm]

Love to see inside pictures. Is that a 50$ Intel mini ATX MB inside? What happens after the MB dies?

If so, unlike a custom box, you can replace that yourself!

 

[Balle Clorin]

Well my Trinnov Amethyst is 9years running I do not even know what ATX is. Maybe I get an external DAC sometime… but Trinnov told me many studios are equipped with the same DAC-ADC, and that it is no point in spending much on an external DAC..
PS the DAC is from RME…

 

[spacevector]

They don't realize that Trinnov strongly encourages you to call them directly and their employees will literally be on the phone with you until it's all figured out - this is what costs so much money!

So if you figure it all out by yourself and do not need their help, you should still call them every month or so and say hi. Get your money's worth you know...

 

[Costas EAR]

If so, unlike a custom box, you can replace that yourself!

No, you can't and you shouldn't.
It's not a plain consumer motherboard, but instead, it's one with components guaranteed for many years of use.

Anyway, we are holding our breath for your listening test, after trinnov calibration.
I suppose that you have the trinnov microphone.

 

[Spocko]

So if you figure it all out by yourself and do not need their help, you should still call them every month or so and say hi. Get your money's worth you know...

Oh believe me, I plan to talk to them much!

 

[TGB]

If only the USA had manufacturers like this - are they planning to come to the U.S.?

Trinnov is actually located in the US as well. They have a team in the US available for you.

https://www.trinnov.com/en/blog/posts/trinnovs-us-subsidiary-expands/

This is my system controlled by Trinnov Altitude32 (32 channel edition, not all channels in use). 9.4.9

 

[The Jniac]

Max power consumption is 100W?!
Must be running a Sandy Lake or something.

Jokes aside, it is really nice to see a company go to such extremes of customer service and corporate ethics. I have a feeling that a lot of that $17000 goes towards allowing them to stay in the black while maintaining the excellent service rather than squeezing every last dB they can out of the SINAD, but I think that is a sound investment.

 

[Spocko]

Max power consumption is 100W?!
Must be running a Sandy Lake or something.

Jokes aside, it is really nice to see a company go to such extremes of customer service and corporate ethics. I have a feeling that a lot of that $17000 goes towards allowing them to stay in the black while maintaining the excellent service rather than squeezing every last dB they can out of the SINAD, but I think that is a sound investment.

It's a race to the bottom when competing on specs like SINAD - the latest Topping D90SE has raised the bar even further for under $1,000

 

[Balle Clorin]

No, you can't and you shouldn't.
It's not a plain consumer motherboard, but instead, it's one with components guaranteed for many years of use.

Anyway, we are holding our breath for your listening test, after trinnov calibration.
I suppose that you have the trinnov microphone.

Testing Trinnov Optimizer takes a lot of time, just using the default takes a few minutes, but default target setting gives a flat frequency response that is NOT what we want, it will sound thin and lacking in bass. You need to create a target curve more like Dirac or Harman. The result is also much better using the multi-point calibration. Singe point calibration can be to aggressive and misleading.

I have read a number for reviews where the reviewer obviously just plugged it in and used the default and wrote a glowing review.
I then know the reviewer is biased by the price and basing the review on on the high-end price and not the sound.
A proper review requires time (days) and tweaking the settings for both target, and FIR filter length and resolution. Only then is the real performance revealed

My latest calibration and target is shown below. -mooving mic method-.. blue is with correction ON- orange=OFF , note that I experimented by pulling down the treble to not trigger the tweeter break up.( A bit more treble slope 2-10k is also fine, but my ears slope naturally ...)
Speakers are Revel F36, no subs og acoustic treatment in a normal living room

I hope Amirm can find the time to experiment with a more elaborate setting than just the default horisontal target. Depending on the room and speakers it may be the best to limit the correction to below 1kHz...

REW singe point measurement

 

[Costas EAR]

You need to create a target curve more like Dirac or Harman. The result is also much better using the multi-point calibration.

Yes, of course.

I am using 15 multi-point calibration. One in mlp, 12 points on a circle (~50cm radius) around mlp every ~30°, and 2 points at left & right seats next to mlp.

That's my choice in targer curve, sounds to my ears like "true flat" response: -0.5dB@20Hz, +0,5dB@30Hz, -9dB@20kHz:

Rew checking one random speaker:

Room RT60 :

~1 hour the measurements, 1 min setting the target curve. That's the time needed for calibration..

Basically, it's just an automated multi-point calibration, all settings at default.
No "fine tuning" needed in my case..

After 30 years in high end audio gear endless "upgrading" (just spending money), trinnov is the end.
IMHO: it's as good as it gets.

The rest of my setup:
All 13 speakers are Neumann 310's and all speakers are at exactly the same listening distance from mlp (2.3m) and at the correct listening angle, with cross firing. Center speaker due to screen is 10° lower, trinnov can correct this.
2 Neumann subs (2*10" each) and 2 genelec subs (2*12"each). The genelec's are symmetric positioned with the same distances from boundaries and they are sharing 1 trinnov output (all 16 are used).
The 4 subs are positioned near the 4 corners of the room, at the spots where they measured best (rew checking).

Jvc n7, lumagen, Stewart 117" studiotek 130 g4. Viewing angle at mlp ~50°.

And a mk5 turntable, just for fun.

Trinnov, one audio gear to rule them all..

 

[Hayabusa]

Yes, of course.

I am using 15 multi-point calibration. One in mlp, 12 points on a circle (~50cm radius) around mlp every ~30°, and 2 points at left & right seats next to mlp.

That's my choice in targer curve, sounds to my ears like "true flat" response: -0.5dB@20Hz, +0,5dB@30Hz, -9dB@20kHz:

View attachment 132529

Rew checking one random speaker:

View attachment 132527

Room RT60 :

View attachment 132528

~1 hour the measurements, 1 min setting the target curve. That's the time needed for calibration..

Basically, it's just an automated multi-point calibration, all settings at default.
No "fine tuning" needed in my case..

After 30 years in high end audio gear endless "upgrading" (just spending money), trinnov is the end.
IMHO: it's as good as it gets.

The rest of my setup:
All 13 speakers are Neumann 310's and all speakers are at exactly the same listening distance from mlp (2.3m) and at the correct listening angle, with cross firing. Center speaker due to screen is 10° lower, trinnov can correct this.
2 Neumann subs (2*10" each) and 2 genelec subs (2*12"each). The genelec's are symmetric positioned with the same distances from boundaries and they are sharing 1 trinnov output (all 16 are used).
The 4 subs are positioned near the 4 corners of the room, at the spots where they measured best (rew checking).

View attachment 132530

View attachment 132531

Jvc n7, lumagen, Stewart 117" studiotek 130 g4. Viewing angle at mlp ~50°.

And a mk5 turntable, just for fun.

Trinnov, one audio gear to rule them all..

Impressive!

 

[Grotti]

Yes, of course.

I am using 15 multi-point calibration. One in mlp, 12 points on a circle (~50cm radius) around mlp every ~30°, and 2 points at left & right seats next to mlp.

That's my choice in targer curve, sounds to my ears like "true flat" response: -0.5dB@20Hz, +0,5dB@30Hz, -9dB@20kHz:

View attachment 132529

Rew checking one random speaker:

View attachment 132527

Room RT60 :

View attachment 132528

~1 hour the measurements, 1 min setting the target curve. That's the time needed for calibration..

Basically, it's just an automated multi-point calibration, all settings at default.
No "fine tuning" needed in my case..

After 30 years in high end audio gear endless "upgrading" (just spending money), trinnov is the end.
IMHO: it's as good as it gets.

The rest of my setup:
All 13 speakers are Neumann 310's and all speakers are at exactly the same listening distance from mlp (2.3m) and at the correct listening angle, with cross firing. Center speaker due to screen is 10° lower, trinnov can correct this.
2 Neumann subs (2*10" each) and 2 genelec subs (2*12"each). The genelec's are symmetric positioned with the same distances from boundaries and they are sharing 1 trinnov output (all 16 are used).
The 4 subs are positioned near the 4 corners of the room, at the spots where they measured best (rew checking).

View attachment 132530

View attachment 132531

Jvc n7, lumagen, Stewart 117" studiotek 130 g4. Viewing angle at mlp ~50°.

And a mk5 turntable, just for fun.

Trinnov, one audio gear to rule them all..

I would have to make a choice: my wife Or this set up. No way to have it both

 

[FrantzM]

I'll list a few unique reasons that Emotiva does not come close to the Trinnov for my use case (everybody has a use case, you buy what you need) - and these unique qualities extend to the limitations of any processor under $10,000.

1. Object Viewer - Absolutely critical for my reviews of immersive audio in movies/music. We are visual animals and this truly helps understand how much is happening above/around the MLP. No other processor, not Emotiva not StormAudio can do this nor will they be able to do this because it's software based processing that requires a PC to do this in real time - which the Trinnov is.
2. Remapping Software and 3D Triangulation Microphone - I will be reviewing both Auro3D and Atmos, and their respective upmixing algorithms of 5.1 content - to that end my speaker arrangement must be a compromised "unified layout" that is not ideal to either but "close enough". The Trinnov remapping software was designed for this situation, specifically, my 4 overhead Atmos channels are also Auro height channels and positioning them for the former excludes optimal playback of the latter. However, these differences are fully resolved of any compromises by the Optimizer Microphone for true triangulation that drives the accuracy of its remapping algorithm, adjusting more accurately for MLP and speaker placement than a single microphone ever can - more data points means better precision. In Trinnov's own marketing speak: "The 3D microphone uses four mic elements in a precise tetrahedral arrangement. Each capsule is individually calibrated at the factory (±0.1 dB from 20 Hz to 24 kHz). As each speaker is measured, the resulting sound waves pass through this array of microphones, hitting each one at a slightly different time. Based on this timing, it triangulates the location of the speaker from which the sound arrived. By testing each speaker in turn, Trinnov build a three-dimensional map of where the speakers are relative to the mic (which is placed at the main listening position)." This is a core strength of the Trinnov that requires this special microphone and the software to do it.
3. Remote Installation & Troubleshooting - When working with an installer, wouldn't it be easy to let him do all the work helping you setup your processor? So I'll just quote @Matthew J Poes from a post above regarding the ease with which he sets up Trinnov for clients: "I set them up from anywhere in the world... can log into the device and manage it from anywhere. Even my phone. When it comes to customer service on custom installs, this is a big deal. Some others have this ability too, but not the cheaper ones. I am working with an installer in Israel and we have a client with a Trinnov processor. I am currently redoing the setup to incorporate a more complex bass management arrangement. I can do it from here in Florida. No problem. Minimal work on the part of the client. The most he has to do is move a mic around for me." So no, you cannot plug your Emotiva into the Internet and let somebody else do most of the work.
4. Active Crossovers for Direct Driver Amplification - If you have speakers like the Bryston, PAP or Procella that allows you to directly power each driver with an amplifier, maybe "exotic" triode tube amps for your horn tweeters and massive Class D for your 8" woofers, only the Trinnov allows you to set up the necessary crossover implementation to integrate 2 completely different amplifiers. Let's say I want use a pair of Pure Audio Project Open Baffle Duet 15 speakers which have the Voxativ 1.6 coaxial driver above and 15" driver below - I would prefer to use small wattage tube amplifier for the Voxativ and a robust Class-A for the 15" woofer below - only the Trinnov can be the active crossover that independently manages these disparate drivers so that I can have a room curve EQ setting optimized for stereo listening without a subwoofer, and one setting for home theater use when a subwoofer is added to the mix. Emotiva cannot do this.
5. Modular Software Platform - Emotiva's Dirac implementation is layered on top of a dedicated decoding chip which may have some minor firmware updates but you're pretty much stuck with that version - for example it could never magically add an entirely new format like IMAX Enhanced if it wasn't already there. Trinnov on the other hand can update its software limited only by their creativity, so can easily add IMAX Enhanced or DTS:X or Atmos Next Gen because they are software developers licensed to apply the source code at the software level to the processor. Emotiva is limited to buying whatever is off the shelf from Texas Instruments and do nothing more to this chip. Being software based means that they can over a weekend, decide to add a cool new feature like Object Viewer so we can see where the audio effects are supposed to be in your room (yes, it was developed in a weekend by an enterprising Trinnov engineer) and now has become one of Trinnov's most popular features. Being a flexible software platform means that it's open to customer suggestions for improvement and update. Emotiva on the other hand cannot improve anything without Texas Instruments designing an entirely new chip to be sold to everybody else - so if only Emotiva customers want this feature? It's unlikely to happen because TI will charge Emotiva way too much for a one-off chip. For example, if Dirac is not properly calibrating Atmos - it's not Emotiva's fault and their hands are tied, I would have to reach out to Dirac, but because Dirac is not an end-licensee of Atmos there's not much Dirac can do to figure out what's wrong whereas Trinnov engineers can trouble shoot their implementation of Atmos at the source code level - and this is why Trinnov is so expensive - you are paying for an entire software engineering team that Emotiva does not have at their disposal.

This is what's important to me; however, I'm sure there may be a few more things I've missed that Emotiva will never offer simply because it's too expensive to offer it for their price point.

Damn!

Luminous post.
mike drop!

 

[Dimifoot]

I would have to make a choice: my wife Or this set up. No way to have it both

I think the choice is obvious

 

[Dimifoot]

Bass and full range attached. No correction -downwards tilt only- over 500Hz, so still sounds like GoldenEar speakers.

The Trinnov Optimizer is powerful. Everything can be tweaked, for example in Bass Management: crossovers, types and slopes for every single speaker, gain and polarity, or redirect bass not only to any of the subs but also from any one speaker to another (example from ceiling speaker to the surround below it).

For the 17000$ you pay 12000 for the software and 5000 for an upgradable, stable and "not broken" processor/hardware. Thats how I see it.
And you get personalised 24/7 customer support as a bonus.

I am very happy with my investment.

 

[Balle Clorin]

The Trinnov support is superb if you need it. I had some questions and needed guidance a couple of times. Even Weekend and evenings I get reply within an hour and he remotely took control of the unit and helped me. Thanks to the tips and tricks provided I get the best possible sound in my room, I cannot listen without it anymore since the room problems become too annoying without the Optimizer.

I f you cannot afford the Trinnov the Dirac, Audiolense and Lyngdorf are other options. If you have successfully implemented DSP there is no way back..

 

[EB1000]

Well my Trinnov Amethyst is 9years running I do not even know what ATX is. Maybe I get an external DAC sometime… but Trinnov told me many studios are equipped with the same DAC-ADC, and that it is no point in spending much on an external DAC..
PS the DAC is from RME…

I see that you have the Amethyst. Does it have an HT bypass capability? Can you at least program one of the analog inputs to have a fixed volume level, so you could feed it with a pre-out signal from an AVR, bypassing the Amethyst's master volume control?

Thanks