Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[GD Fan]

Ive set up three of these now. I really like them. You really can’t compare the Japanese receivers and processors to this. It’s setup flexibility is nearly unmatched. I believe Storm and Datasat are similar but Trinnov has some capabilities I’ve only ever used with their processor.

besides the larger channel count, the DSP is so flexible it can be used as the core DSP of an active speaker. If you use an active home cinema speaker like Grimani and Procella, this can act as the crossover. It has tons of crossover options, PEQ, etc. The channel mux then lets you route whatever channel in to whatever channel out. This is the key feature missing from many cheaper processors.

the setup flexibility is just unreal and provides real solutions to common problems.

the Room correction is also very unique. I recently read the manual and then received a full training on it. I talked with the engineers a bit about how it worked. The flexibility far exceeds that of any other room correction I have ever used. It’s highly adjustable. Enough so to really get you in trouble. You can change how it equalizes the direct sound, early reflections, and late reflections separately. You can adjust the octave smoothing applied to the late reflection Eq. You can even change the window length. This is great for addressing different types of rooms with different degrees of treatment.

the ability to change the perceived elevation of the channels is also surprisingly good. Part of me hates the idea of utilizing a $17k processor on an Inceiling surround system. But it makes it a lot better.

finally, I can set them up from anywhere in the world. I can log into the device and manage it from anywhere. Even my phone. When it comes to customer service on custom installs, this is a big deal. Some others have this ability too, but not the cheaper ones. I am working with an installer in Israel and we have a client with a Trinnov processor. I am currently redoing the setup to incorporate a more complex bass management arrangement. I can do it from here in Florida. No problem. Minimal work on the part of the client. The most he has to do is move a mic around for me.

That sounds like next-level functionality. Wow.

 

[stunta]

Ive set up three of these now. I really like them. You really can’t compare the Japanese receivers and processors to this. It’s setup flexibility is nearly unmatched. I believe Storm and Datasat are similar but Trinnov has some capabilities I’ve only ever used with their processor.

besides the larger channel count, the DSP is so flexible it can be used as the core DSP of an active speaker. If you use an active home cinema speaker like Grimani and Procella, this can act as the crossover. It has tons of crossover options, PEQ, etc. The channel mux then lets you route whatever channel in to whatever channel out. This is the key feature missing from many cheaper processors.

the setup flexibility is just unreal and provides real solutions to common problems.

the Room correction is also very unique. I recently read the manual and then received a full training on it. I talked with the engineers a bit about how it worked. The flexibility far exceeds that of any other room correction I have ever used. It’s highly adjustable. Enough so to really get you in trouble. You can change how it equalizes the direct sound, early reflections, and late reflections separately. You can adjust the octave smoothing applied to the late reflection Eq. You can even change the window length. This is great for addressing different types of rooms with different degrees of treatment.

the ability to change the perceived elevation of the channels is also surprisingly good. Part of me hates the idea of utilizing a $17k processor on an Inceiling surround system. But it makes it a lot better.

finally, I can set them up from anywhere in the world. I can log into the device and manage it from anywhere. Even my phone. When it comes to customer service on custom installs, this is a big deal. Some others have this ability too, but not the cheaper ones. I am working with an installer in Israel and we have a client with a Trinnov processor. I am currently redoing the setup to incorporate a more complex bass management arrangement. I can do it from here in Florida. No problem. Minimal work on the part of the client. The most he has to do is move a mic around for me.

This is quite impressive. Clearly, this unit is not meant for a budget 5.1 system.

 

[restorer-john]

finally, I can set them up from anywhere in the world. I can log into the device and manage it from anywhere. Even my phone.

That's amazing. Now all you need to do is attach a cam to the USB port and you can see the customers sitting in their PJs watching movies...creepy.

 

[GD Fan]

This is quite impressive. Clearly, this unit is not meant for a budget 5.1 system.

Bummer, that!

 

[Mkaram]

Thank you for the review, Amir.
In your AVR comparison chart is there a reason you're excluding HTP-1? Shouldn't it occupy the spot immediately below the 8500H?

 

[al2002]

Dear Trinnov,

Here is an idea for a smaller model. Call it Lite or EZ, whatever.
- 7.2 XLRs out.
- eARC.
- PEQ a few bands per channel.
- A few HDMIs.
- SINAD 100+.
- Around 2k usd.

2k USD is simply not feasible given the hardware inside. Even Marantz/Denon processors cost more than that now.

if you want to run their optimizer software in multichannel, have a look at the D-Mon series which could be used between your existing pre-processor and power amps, even though that is not the intended application.

For stereo 2.2, the Amethyst is just great. I wouldn’t exchange mine for any other preamp on the market.

 

[Spocko]

Ive set up three of these now. I really like them. You really can’t compare the Japanese receivers and processors to this. It’s setup flexibility is nearly unmatched. I believe Storm and Datasat are similar but Trinnov has some capabilities I’ve only ever used with their processor.

besides the larger channel count, the DSP is so flexible it can be used as the core DSP of an active speaker. If you use an active home cinema speaker like Grimani and Procella, this can act as the crossover. It has tons of crossover options, PEQ, etc. The channel mux then lets you route whatever channel in to whatever channel out. This is the key feature missing from many cheaper processors.

the setup flexibility is just unreal and provides real solutions to common problems.

the Room correction is also very unique. I recently read the manual and then received a full training on it. I talked with the engineers a bit about how it worked. The flexibility far exceeds that of any other room correction I have ever used. It’s highly adjustable. Enough so to really get you in trouble. You can change how it equalizes the direct sound, early reflections, and late reflections separately. You can adjust the octave smoothing applied to the late reflection Eq. You can even change the window length. This is great for addressing different types of rooms with different degrees of treatment.

the ability to change the perceived elevation of the channels is also surprisingly good. Part of me hates the idea of utilizing a $17k processor on an Inceiling surround system. But it makes it a lot better.

finally, I can set them up from anywhere in the world. I can log into the device and manage it from anywhere. Even my phone. When it comes to customer service on custom installs, this is a big deal. Some others have this ability too, but not the cheaper ones. I am working with an installer in Israel and we have a client with a Trinnov processor. I am currently redoing the setup to incorporate a more complex bass management arrangement. I can do it from here in Florida. No problem. Minimal work on the part of the client. The most he has to do is move a mic around for me.

Oh you just made my life much easier!

 

[B4ICU]

Amazing. 100% testing but 0% listening, still recommended. Who needs ears, if we have a test bench?
Not to say, that tests seems to repeat, and show a few more dB here, some less THD+N there, etc'.
I'm going to pawn my ears. No more need. It might worth a few cents...
Does AP has some implants to replace the natural device?

 

[TimoJ]

Thank you for the review, Amir.
In your AVR comparison chart is there a reason you're excluding HTP-1? Shouldn't it occupy the spot immediately below the 8500H?

HTP-1 is there but using 4V output measurements i.e. 97dB. However, in practice most users use lower output range (2.7V and below) where HTP-1's SINAD was 102dB.

 

[Mkaram]

HTP-1 is there but using 4V output measurements i.e. 97dB. However, in practice most users use lower output range (2.7V and below) where HTP-1's SINAD was 102dB.

Right, which is the voltage of the 8500h?

I'm thinking of some potential inconsistency in the charting approach.

 

[gvl]

Does it do anything special to justify the exuberant price?

 

[Descartes]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Trinnov Altitude 16 AV Processor. I received one sample from a kind member after which Trinnov also contacted me and sent me another with an improvement (see below). The Altitude costs US $17,000.

In contacting me Trinnov expressed that they had made an optimization to the DAC that resulted in better measured performance but not audibly. For this reason, they have not promoted this change. They plan to make a more substantial revision of the DAC to come out later that they will offer as upgrade to current customers. They have asked me if I would participate in testing that and of course I said yes.

The Altitude 16 does a great job of hiding the fact that it is built on a PC architecture with a beautiful front panel and controls just like any "appliance" version of the same:

View attachment 132313

The display has a very high resolution and elegant look that I liked. It is a bit to fully refresh but the interface was responsive. On start up there is a faint fan noise but it goes away once it boots. The back panel shows all the balanced I/O you would expect in a high-end AV Processor:

View attachment 132314

Now you can tell its PC guts given the standard I/O panel on bottom left. But again, you don't really notice that there is a PC in there.

The measurements you are about to see were reviewed by the company and were agreed upon as being representative. On that note, the company was exceptionally nice to work with and brought a constructive attitude which I much appreciated. Support is a big deal for such expensive purchases and it is good to see it be available from Trinnov.

Trinnov Altitude 16 Measurements (DAC)
As usual, our focus is the hygiene of the basic audio pipeline in these AV products. We feed it a digital signal and turn off all effects and processing and see what the DAC is capable of doing compared to other AV products (and desktop DACs):

View attachment 132315

As usual, I adjust the output to 4 volts which is the standard for desktop/stereo DACs (over balanced output). Performance here is competent and inline with other better AV processors I have tested:

View attachment 132316

Hopefully in the future we get performance in "blue" region of our performance buckets.

Sweeping the input we see that performance gets to where we measured and stays there for good bit until it clips above 6 volts:
View attachment 132317

Dynamic range is good:
View attachment 132318

DAC filter showed a strange but minor kink:
View attachment 132319

Trinnov has figured out the cause of this and is working on a fix. It was not important enough for me to hold up the review.

For the rest of these tests I used Toslink input as HDMI out of my measurement computer truncates to 16 bit. Let's start with IMD:

View attachment 132320

Here is our jitter test on both Toslink and HDMI:
View attachment 132321

Both show room for improvement although in the case of jitter it is not an audible concern due to very low levels that are below threshold of human hearing.

Linearity shows some inaccuracy:

View attachment 132322

So we get the magical 18 bits again.

Here is our THD+N versus frequency:

View attachment 132323

I could not run my multitone test because it has a 192 kHz sampling and Trinnov Altitude 16 is not able to play anything above 96 kHz. You have to move up to Altitude 32 to get the processing power it needs for that.

Conclusions
We have been waiting a long time to test any Trinnov processor as it is considered the pinnacle of high-end AV processors. It was great that it came to pass and I did not find anything broken in there. We have our answer that high-end AV processors as they exist today do not bring better measured performance in their basic DAC pipeline. Good news is that Trinnov is among just a couple of companies that has promised new generation of DACs to provide better performance. And that our testing has motivated that.

On the strength of excellent company support, future direction and good measurements, I am going to put the Trinnov Altitude 16 on my recommended list.

Time permitting, I plan to test the Room Optimizer in there which is the main reason behind the strong reputation of Trinnov processors.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Appreciate any donations using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Thank you Amir still no better DAC than the Denon AVR 8500! For that kind of pricing you would think they would be better!

 

[TimoJ]

Right, which is the voltage of the 8500h?

I'm thinking of some potential inconsistency in the charting approach.

It was 2V but the 8500h has only unbalanced outputs. So that is consistent with 4V balanced (2V per pin) measurement.

 

[FeddyLost]

As i've read in our local forums, stereo solutions from Trinnov is decent in ADC-DAC conversion, but most experienced users apply "better sounding" external DACs.
And of course, if you have no option of exchanging room with crappy sound, it always worth its money.
There was long story about installation of big Westlakes in some concrete room and war with these Westlakes and the room. Trinnov saved investment when user was ready to give up.

 

[Costas EAR]

Trinnov altitude 16 is very cheap, it's a bargain. I'm a happy owner.

My also very cheap active speakers, in my 9.4.4 setup (13 active speakers and 4 subs) cost more than 2 trinnov's...
Let's say 13*2.000€ and 4*3.000€ =38.000€
Plus stands, cables, etc..

Trinnov is roon ready, ripped sacd files (and all other 5.1 and 7.1 files) are reproduced through home network from my server, and 3D auro upmixing is perfect.

Blue ray disks with dolby atmos music are added in my collection very frequently..

The trinnov software for room eq is just state of art. You have to hear it to believe.

There is no realistic reason to upgrade my dac board, there is no way I can hear the difference from sinad 100 even to sinad 200... This is audio bullshit..
But, I will upgrade the hdmi board.

 

[mar1o]

A big advantage of these „pro“ av processors is, that you can adjust a lot manually. This helps, when room and speaker setup isn’t optimal. But i guess, when you do the right speaker set up (positioning) and room treatment, the difference between a good av receiver such Denon X8500/X6700 and a processor like from Trinnov/Stormaudio becomes more negligible.
Personally i am really interested in the new revision of the X8500H the X8500HA with 8x 2 Channel ESS DAC or the new revision of the X6700 with TI DAC. Would love to see the measurement and read about the subjective listening in comparasion.

 

[spacevector]

Not even barely (no offense, Bear) enough RCA on the back panel, now is there in case the digital soundtrack atmos fails, for proper Dolby 4.2.4 and how good is the Dolby dsu is it flawed with crosstalk leaking into LR and surround. Not enough RCA, so no good for phone turntable now. No RCA for CC tape now is there. Not enough RCA even for Lt Rt Laserdisc and VHS. and how good does it handle video composite.

Man you really like that RCA =)

@amirm, did Trinnov disclose how much performance improved in the unit you tested compared to the member's older unit?

Will you be doing a teardown? Might be a treat.

Hope you get to perform a test of the room compensation at some point. May be you can even have Trinnov connect remotely and have them set it up for you. Thanks for the review!

 

[Costas EAR]

Personally i am really interested in the new of the new X8500HA with 8x 2 Channel ESS DAC or the new revision of the X6700 with TI DAC.

You shouldn't.

The dsp signal path is 24/48 or lower.
Dolby decoding is a black box in these av's and upmixing algorithms are also small black boxes, and crossover slopes are working only in certain ways, volume control is another story, etc.

And of course your speaker setup in your room, is incapable of red book resolution or dynamic range, so why bother.

Maybe with high quality and dynamic range headphones there is a small need for a high quality 2 channel Dac for certain music species and for listening levels above reference (85-105)..
But, above reference level, our ears have lower capabilities, so you should have lower expectations of high quality at these spl's.

 

[spacevector]

Amazing. 100% testing but 0% listening, still recommended. Who needs ears, if we have a test bench?
Not to say, that tests seems to repeat, and show a few more dB here, some less THD+N there, etc'.
I'm going to pawn my ears. No more need. It might worth a few cents...
Does AP has some implants to replace the natural device?

This commentary may be better suited for one of the complaint threads. Why increase the SNR of the product thread?

 

[Tovarich007]

Well, after reading this Trinnov test, let me express a few thoughts and concerns.

Sure Trinnov is expensive. And Ok the measured performances are not absolutely on par with a budget Topping or other good budget dacs makers, but that's not the whole story. Far from that !

I use a Topping DX7S for years - excellent device for its DAC and headamp sections, but not as good when I listen thru its line output. Not bad for price, but I listened to better preamps, no matter what the Topping's excellent theorical measurements tell on the test bench.
But for ergonomy and overall quality, this overall good budget DAC/preamp has obvious little flaws : for example, an audible "pop" at extinction.... Not a good point, because any 2 or 300 $ receiver on the market are equipped with relays that prevent those "pops". This is more important IMO than slight differences in measurements.

To come back to the Trinnov test, I' not sure that one could hear any difference at all in direct comparison between the Dac alone section of the Trinnov and any of Topping or Gustard or Matrix or others "competition" laboratory measurements budget Dacs.

As for ergonomy, modularity, connectivity, room calibration (Trinnov has developped one of the best if not the best), overall quality, company support, I would choose Trinnov without any hesitation against any budget brands (if I had the budget -unfortunately not....). Once again, these are MUCH more important criterias than absolute figures in measurements.

And review a Trinnov without testing and using its calibration sounds a little weird and very uncomplete IMO again. So we're waiting for the complementary test (and much more useful one) announced by Amir, because nobody buys a Trinnov because its has 0.05 % in harmonic distorsion instead of 0.06, nor rejects it because it has 0.05 instead of 0.03 (not real figures of course).

I don't write this because I'm french and proud of a few companies like Trinnov, but because beyond a certain level of quality on the test bench, absolute measured performance are not key points. I would appreciate that Amir publish more indepths reviews, not only the test bench (test bench measurements are important to a certain extent of course, I'm not a crazy subjectivist contamined by"audiophilia nervosia"), but also qualty construction, "pops and ans flops" when there are somes, ergonomy, more extended listening tests, etc.