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Upcoming Tom Danley Hifi speakers

jhaider

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Why is that?

Three reasons.

First, installations that merit advanced speakers generally have structured wiring, and that wiring generally does not include line level. After our living room was wired speakers such as Dutch & Dutch and Kii came out, and I wondered if I had been a dumbass to not specify a line level cable leading to each speaker location. (That might have added a couple hundred bucks then, but a retrofit now would be well into 4 figures.) I asked around to local CEDIA installers, and all but said they’ve never installed line level cable at all speaker locations in any residential install. The exception was the person who did an install at a home at the time owned by Usher, and ran line level (only!) in his home studio.

Second, the inside of a speaker cabinet is kind of a rough place. Why subject circuitry to that?

Third, there’s more chance of grounding issues when different components are on different circuits.

My preferred approach to active multiamp’ed speakers is outboard amps, a la Linkwitz, NHT xD, JBL M2 and 7-Series install, GGNTKT, etc. Neumann’s flagship does best of both worlds, with an electronics pack that can be mounted to the speaker cabinet or removed and racked.
 

Purité Audio

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Danley update, Hyperion, slightly smaller version, and a range of domestic/home theatre designs!
Keep checking the skies ( Danley site next week).
Keith
 

Head_Unit

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My preferred approach to active multiamp’ed speakers is outboard amps
I can see that and it makes sense given the issues you brought up about wiring. But I suspect a lot of customers mentality is "no boxes." Which then means what you really need is lossless decoding inside the speakers...because who really want to pump through long runs of line level, right? As for the vibration and all, well, many PA speakers are now active right at the speaker, so the problem can't be TOO bad and/or it's been figured out I guess. PA also does long runs of line level however I suspect the noise floor might not be acceptable in home installs.
 

Newman

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“Sonic perfection....”

Will this claim attract the same amount of derision that it did for Philips?

Or maybe speakers are more accurate than CD these days? ;)
 

voodooless

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I can see that and it makes sense given the issues you brought up about wiring.

Why needs wires (except for power)? WiSA gives lossless multichannel wireless audio (up to 96 kHz). For example the Buchardt A700.
 

q3cpma

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Why needs wires (except for power)? WiSA gives lossless multichannel wireless audio (up to 96 kHz). For example the Buchardt A700.
Some people like it when stuff works all the time. A bit why I shun wireless mices/keyboards. That and the additional price to BOM and development.
 

voodooless

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That and the additional price to BOM and development.

Sure, 4 figures to redo wires, or buy a wireless speaker… you do the math ;) on the total cost of an active system, the components to add WiSa are negligible. The license cost is probably higher.

As for reliability, yes some gains can be made, neither WiFi or Bluetooth are very well designed for wireless audio. I don’t know the specifics of the WiSa protocol, but I best it’s a bunch more robust and reliable.

Anyway.. back to the Danley :cool:
 

williamwally

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1622052949919.png
 

pozz

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Newman

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Not sure if TD ever cared that much about diffraction.

The SH50
SH50I-with-Fasteners-Front-e1501774207922.png
 

ctrl

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The synergy horn concept is really very interesting and innovative.

The only thing that irritates me is the possibly less good decay behavior of the frequency ranges on which the cone drivers work together with the "diffraction slots/holes".
Several years ago I have dealt a little with diffraction slots, for me the poor decay was the reason for the discontinuation of the project.

In the synergy horns, the "diffraction holes" are arranged asymmetrically to the cone driver, which certainly helps to attenuate the resonances and "smear" them over a wide frequency range.

I have already searched the internet for measurements of the decay behavior of the synergy horns, but have not been able to find any CSD or burst decay measurement. In the PA context, the decay behavior certainly does not play such a large role, hence the low interest.

If someone has measurements of the decay behavior of synergy horns, I would be happy about a CSD measurement
.
 

q3cpma

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The synergy horn concept is really very interesting and innovative.

The only thing that irritates me is the possibly less good decay behavior of the frequency ranges on which the cone drivers work together with the "diffraction slots/holes".
Several years ago I have dealt a little with diffraction slots, for me the poor decay was the reason for the discontinuation of the project.

In the synergy horns, the "diffraction holes" are arranged asymmetrically to the cone driver, which certainly helps to attenuate the resonances and "smear" them over a wide frequency range.

I have already searched the internet for measurements of the decay behavior of the synergy horns, but have not been able to find any CSD or burst decay measurement. In the PA context, the decay behavior certainly does not play such a large role, hence the low interest.

If someone has measurements of the decay behavior of synergy horns, I would be happy about a CSD measurement
.
An interesting question, but I doubt the result would be that interesting without the corresponding psychoacoustic research, as Genelec's Ones show: they got massive mid bass decay, but no one ever complained about its audibility; probably more important at higher frequencies (WM crossover: 500 Hz for 8331A/8341A, 320 Hz for 8351B/8361A and 470 Hz for the old 8351A), like most time domain distortion.
 

ctrl

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An interesting question, but I doubt the result would be that interesting without the corresponding psychoacoustic research, as Genelec's Ones show: they got massive mid bass decay, but no one ever complained about its audibility; probably more important at higher frequencies (WM crossover: 500 Hz for 8331A/8341A, 320 Hz for 8351B/8361A and 470 Hz for the old 8351A), like most time domain distortion.
Exactly, that is the exciting question. At what point are decay problems audible.

For the Genelec 8351 with the woofers behind diffraction slots, the decay delay is about one oscillation period - more details here. This is unlikely to be audible, but I don't know of any studies that have seriously determined the audibility threshold experimentally.

On the ocean-way-hr5 studio monitor measured by Amir with diffraction slot for the woofer, some slow decaying resonances have shown up, mixed with BR port resonances - more details here. There, it took up to eight oscillation periods until the signal was attenuated by -17dB. Something like this should, IMO, be avoided in any case.


If we look at a very simple simulation of a cone driver with, attention, symmetrically arranged "diffraction hole", then the potential becomes immediately clear and also the reason for the asymmetrical arrangement within the synergy horn (simulation with infinite baffle, 0-90° frequency response in the right diagram):
1622899705340.png1622898801745.png
We see optimal omnidirectional behavior in the operating range of the bass-midrange driver (in the example a 4'' driver). In the "pressure chamber" an uneven sound pressure distribution can be seen, which would not occur with a driver in the baffle.
Around 1kHz there is an extreme sound pressure level peak (resonance?), which makes sensible use impossible - hence always the asymmetrical arrangement of the "diffraction hole"?

Unfortunately I can't simulate the decay of a driver - something like that would have to be done by a professional like @René - Acculution.com with COMSOL.
 
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q3cpma

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Exactly, that is the exciting question. At what point are decay problems audible.

For the Genelec 8351 with the woofers behind diffraction slots, the decay delay is about one oscillation period - more details here. This is unlikely to be audible, but I don't know of any studies that have seriously determined the audibility threshold experimentally.

On the ocean-way-hr5 studio monitor measured by Amir with diffraction slot for the woofer, some slow decaying resonances have shown up, mixed with BR port resonances - more details here. There, it took up to eight oscillation periods until the signal was attenuated by -17dB. Something like this should, IMO, be avoided in any case.


If we look at a very simple simulation of a cone driver with, attention, symmetrically arranged "diffraction hole", then the potential becomes immediately clear and also the reason for the asymmetrical arrangement within the synergy horn:
View attachment 133894 View attachment 133893
We see optimal omnidirectional behavior in the operating range of the bass-midrange driver (in the example a 4'' driver). In the "pressure chamber" an uneven sound pressure distribution can be seen, which would not occur with a driver in the baffle.
Around 1kHz there is an extreme sound pressure level peak (resonance?), which makes sensible use impossible - hence always the asymmetrical arrangement of the "diffraction hole".

Unfortunately I can't simulate the decay of a driver - something like that would have to be done by a professional like @René - Acculution.com with COMSOL.
Thanks for your effort, indeed, the one period way seems to be a good rule of thumb for now.
 
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