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Chinese company TCL to own Pioneer and Onkyo Brands Outside Japan!

amirm

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Well, here comes the end for Pioneer and Onkyo. TCL will own the brand and manufacturing of the products in the future. In other words, they are becoming empty brands like Polaroid, etc.

https://www.channelnews.com.au/excl...lk-with-philips-after-gibson-brands-collapse/

Chinese technology Company TCL is set to take over the Pioneer and Onkyo brands currently under the management of US Company Gibson brands, they are also in talks with Philips over their audio range according to sources.

The move is set to be a major blow for Gibson Brands who are facing a grim future with debt as high as A$707 million due within months.

According to sources in Shenzhen, TCL will take over management of these brands internationally apart from Japan.

TCL who also own the Alcatel and Blackberry smartphone brands is one of the fastest growing TV Brands in the USA where arch rival Hisense has been forced to buy the rights to the Toshiba name to sell TV’s after consumers rejected the poor quality of the Hisense branded TV’s.

In Australia the move by TCL to take over sales of the Pioneer, Onkyo and Philips audio brands could be a major blow to Powermove who currently distribute all these brands.

According to sources TCL have indicated that they will invest in the manufacture of the two Japanese and one European brands in a move that could deliver significant benefits to Pioneer, Onkyo and Philips.
 

Stump909

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I won't say I'm super optimistic, but I wouldn't discredit TCL right off the bat. First, Onkyo and Pioneer have been cost cutting for awhile now. Moving towards in-house room correction is a good sign of that, in my opinion. Second, TCL is doing some amazing things in the TV market right now. Since we are a spec focused forum, it's worth noting they offer a TV for $550 that's rivaling the specs of $1500 sets, and the replacement is right around the corner. Coming out of China isn't always a death sentence in quality anymore. Just look at Topping.
 

Wombat

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I won't say I'm super optimistic, but I wouldn't discredit TCL right off the bat. First, Onkyo and Pioneer have been cost cutting for awhile now. Moving towards in-house room correction is a good sign of that, in my opinion. Second, TCL is doing some amazing things in the TV market right now. Since we are a spec focused forum, it's worth noting they offer a TV for $550 that's rivaling the specs of $1500 sets, and the replacement is right around the corner. Coming out of China isn't always a death sentence in quality anymore. Just look at Topping.

Reliability(inferior parts and materials) and servicing(parts availability/cost making repair uneconomic) of the cheap products is a common trade-off. Time will tell. My concern is that a race-to-the-bottom will degrade the Panasonic, Sony, Samsung and LG offerings.
 

beeface

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I wonder what will happen to TAD? I assume it is bundled with Pioneer? Likewise Integra with Onkyo?
There is a lot of genuine R&D resources being acquired here. I can't help but think that TCL would benefit more from continuing to fund the existing operations than simply relying on Onkyo and Pioneer being household names that will help shift units.

Gibson also owns TEAC/TASCAM/Esoteric. It will be interesting to see what happens there.
 
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amirm

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That is a good question. I suspect they will continue in Japan but can't imagine TCL wanting anything to do with it.

Note that they are not owning any part of Pioneer. They have simply licensed the name so that they can put it on whatever they produce.
 

watchnerd

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I don't know why TCL would buy these brands. Is there really much upside potential in the Onkyo brand? They were basically unknown to the general public.
 
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amirm

amirm

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TCL's only association today is being Chinese/Cheap. Pioneer and Onkyo bring the image of fidelity, quality, Japanese, etc. So it is a major plus for them.

Look at Polaroid and how it was used to make people think they are buying some American product, rather than no-name Chinese.
 

watchnerd

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TCL's only association today is being Chinese/Cheap. Pioneer and Onkyo bring the image of fidelity, quality, Japanese, etc. So it is a major plus for them.

Look at Polaroid and how it was used to make people think they are buying some American product, rather than no-name Chinese.

That would make sense if I thought the average American consumer knows about the Onkyo brand at all....which I don't think they do.

Maybe it's a play for non-American markets.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Onkyo has been a very popular AVR brand sold by major big box stores for years and promoted such. Pioneer has much longer history still. Both of them are miles ahead of where TCL is today in America.

But yes, in their own market, there is cache for these Japanese brands that will help them sell there.
 

Palladium

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TCL's only association today is being Chinese/Cheap. Pioneer and Onkyo bring the image of fidelity, quality, Japanese, etc. So it is a major plus for them.

Look at Polaroid and how it was used to make people think they are buying some American product, rather than no-name Chinese.

One of most recommended TV over at enthusiast circles is a cheap FALD equipped TCL. Xiaomi also now well known for incredible quality at low prices for almost everything they make in the sun.

If anything they are proving just how much money people are used to spending needlessly on brand marketing like on Samsung stuff. If they still wanna buy overpriced rebadged MIC products they can be my guest, somebody has to keep food on the table for the marketing guys.
 

watchnerd

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One of most recommended TV over at enthusiast circles is a cheap FALD equipped TCL. Xiaomi also now well known for incredible quality at low prices for almost everything they make in the sun.

If anything they are proving just how much money people are used to spending needlessly on brand marketing like on Samsung stuff. If they still wanna buy overpriced rebadged MIC products they can be my guest, somebody has to keep food on the table for the marketing guys.

My last TV was a TCL. Hardware was fine. Software was about as crappy as your average smart tv.

We haven't bought a new TV since we moved to our new house 10 months ago.

Haven't missed it.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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TCL's only association today is being Chinese/Cheap. Pioneer and Onkyo bring the image of fidelity, quality, Japanese, etc. So it is a major plus for them.

Look at Polaroid and how it was used to make people think they are buying some American product, rather than no-name Chinese.

Wasn't it back in the seventies that Japanese Sanyo bought formerly respected Fisher for the name? Cheap junk ensued, consistent with Sanyo's heritage, certainly not Fisher's. What a disaster.

There was also the acquisition by Superscope of once lofty Marantz. That was not nearly as bad, though the product line was cheapened and broadened, eventually over time refocused mainly on home theater. Kicked around several times, I have no idea of the nationality of the current owners of Denon/Marantz, or if those two brands remain connected.

McIntosh has also been kicked around several times, I believe initially acquired by Japanese Clarion, the cheap car audio guys. For traditionalists, they have remained largely true to their old heritage through several subsequent foreign acquisitions, remaining much like the US independent they once were. The HQ is still in Binghampton, NY, though I do not know who the current owner is. But, the latest MA 252 integrated tube amp just does not have nearly the sex appeal of its obvious inspiration, the old 275 tube amp, as beautiful a classic as there ever was. The gorgeous new C52 preamp seems a nicely featured winner, though, lovely VU meters and all with that beautiful, traditional and expensive front panel. The look is great, but the performance has not been special for many, many decades.

So, the Chinese now appear to be using the old playbook against some Japanese consumer audio brands, much as the Japanese had done with often distinguished US brands. Pioneer and Onkyo/Integra are not the same caliber, however. But, maybe those names will be a hot ticket in the ever growing Chinese consumer market, though perhaps no longer in America or Europe.

And, of course, we do not yet know what will eventually ensue from Korean Samsung's buyout of Harman.
 

RayDunzl

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There's just something wrong with this:

upload_2018-4-27_0-13-9.png
 
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restorer-john

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I find this post (quoted below) rather misleading, biased, and not remotely accurate.

Wasn't it back in the seventies that Japanese Sanyo bought formerly respected Fisher for the name? Cheap junk ensued, consistent with Sanyo's heritage, certainly not Fisher's. What a disaster.

Sanyo bought Fisher from Emerson in 1975. Emerson had already trashed what was left of the brand. Sanyo's heritage is about as good as it gets, set up by Konosuke Matsushita's brother in law Toshio Iue and produced everything from washing machines, to large scale integrated circuits and made some truly excellent HiFi gear. In fact the Sanyo CD plant was pressing CDs before Sony's and Polygram's. The 'golden era' Fisher was nothing more than bashed-together tube radios, sold in kits, masquerading as something more than they were.

There was also the acquisition by Superscope of once lofty Marantz. That was not nearly as bad, though the product line was cheapened and broadened, eventually over time refocused mainly on home theater. Kicked around several times, I have no idea of the nationality of the current owners of Denon/Marantz, or if those two brands remain connected.

Marantz, 'once lofty', but pretty much broke and loss making when Superscope (An American Company) bought them in 1964.

All Marantz's financial success and the classic gear was produced under Superscope's leadership as they quickly enlisted the OEM, Standard Radio of Japan to produce high fidelity gear that was competitive and offered performance commensurate with the early and mid 70s expectations and their competition. Resting on long dead, tube era laurels, didn't cut it in the 1970s where leading edge performance mattered.

Philips bought Marantz from Superscope in 1980. Philips, being the giant they are, regarded Marantz as a small brand that had to pay its way. Under Philip's stewardship, Marantz produced some absolute world class products, many of which didn't see the light of day in the US, so it is wrong to assume just what you saw in your local HiFi dealer or Discount store was remotely representative of their TOTL gear sold in Europe, or in the home market of Japan where it was still manufactured.

Denon and Marantz merged in 2001/2 after Marantz Japan acquired the brand and formed D&M Holdings, which has now been acquired by a US company I believe.

McIntosh has also been kicked around several times, I believe initially acquired by Japanese Clarion, the cheap car audio guys. For traditionalists, they have remained largely true to their old heritage through several subsequent foreign acquisitions, remaining much like the US independent they once were. The HQ is still in Binghampton, NY, though I do not know who the current owner is. But, the latest MA 252 integrated tube amp just does not have nearly the sex appeal of its obvious inspiration, the old 275 tube amp, as beautiful a classic as there ever was. The gorgeous new C52 preamp seems a nicely featured winner, though, lovely VU meters and all with that beautiful, traditional and expensive front panel. The look is great, but the performance has not been special for many, many decades.

Clarion 'cheap car audio guys'? How about one of the absolute biggest OEM manufacturers of all types and prices of car audio and arguably more successful than any of the others, due to their long-term contracts with car-makers the world over. They bought McIntosh in around 1990 and didn't change anything at all. Sold by Clarion to D&M Holdings in 2003 and then to what became the Fine Sounds Group (an American conglomerate of other HiFi brands they sucked up) in 2012.

So, the Chinese now appear to be using the old playbook against some Japanese consumer audio brands, much as the Japanese had done with often distinguished US brands.

The Japanese partnered with the 'distinguished' US brands. They injected much needed technology, money and manufacturing skills to what were essentially bankrupt or collapsing companies. The Chinese simply buy the brand name, trade on the back of it, and stick it on anything they like. Not remotely the same.

Pioneer and Onkyo/Integra are not the same caliber, however.

Pioneer and Onkyo are highly revered brands. Onkyo produced some truly excellent product. Pioneer was one of the absolute biggest during the 1970s,80s and 90s. Their best gear is unbelievable and their current range (TAD) of cost no object HiFi re-defines what we can expect going forward IMO.

Seeing the Pioneer or Onkyo brands on random Chinese gear will be a sad day indeed, but such is the way of the world these days.

And, of course, we do not yet know what will eventually ensue from Korean Samsung's buyout of Harman.

It will be interesting to watch. Considering the value of this deal, it isn't going to be a slash-and-burn and sell off. I would like to see JBL re positioned and given its chance to shine once again, but I doubt that will happen with all the money being in headphones and bluetooth speakers. :)
 
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cjfrbw

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I just bought a TCL 4k HDR 43 inch TV for $250 as a computer monitor. The picture is excellent on both 4k Netflix media and as a computer monitor. Sony excellent? No, but it is not as far off as you might expect. It also has very good blacks. With prices this low for a picture this good, all other questions tend to be about long term reliability.

I listen to it with headphones and the DAC output for it feeding from HDMI is surprisingly robust and good sounding as well. I can watch a 4k movie or Netflix media sitting close to it with headphones and reading glasses and be totally immersed with so much detail and color that it isn't far from a big screen experience.
 
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amirm

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TV technology is so commoditized that even with no R&D the chinese companies can put a good product. This wasn't the case 10+ years ago where getting such things as accurate color/grayscale was hard.
 

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