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JBL 705P / 708P

Arnold Krueger

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Dang we're all a bunch of ole cronies. Reminds me of the Suncoast meeting I went to not long ago. Sorry for your friends unexpected passing, wonder what will happen to this "hobby" when all us boomers are gone? :( Guess we're the dinosaurs here.

Good question.
 

stunta

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Don't worry. Vinyl spinning hipster millennials will keep this hobby alive.
 

RayDunzl

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Sal1950

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stunta

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Any idea how the 705P compares to the Dynaudio Lyd series? The Lyd 8 has an 8" inch driver but the 705P goes lower in the bass, at least on paper. The Lyd is cheaper though.
 

Old Listener

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Any idea how the 705P compares to the Dynaudio Lyd series? The Lyd 8 has an 8" inch driver but the 705P goes lower in the bass, at least on paper. The Lyd is cheaper though.

The JBL 705P and Dynaudio LYD48 were my top candidates for new monitors for my main system. I couldn't audition either locally. A 400 mile trip to LA didn't seem worthwhile. I ordered a pair of LYD48s from Sweetwater. I could have ordered a pair of 705Ps and returned the monitors that I didn't choose but I hate returning gear.

So, I have no experience with the 705Ps but I'm happy as a clam with the LYD48s. Tight, precise bass and more detail in the midrange than I've heard before on familiar recordings in the past. No added warmth in the upper bass.No problem in producing 90 dB at my listening chair 9-10 feet from the speakers in a 22 by 15 by 9 foot room.

I will optimize placement of the LYD48 monitors and the listening position in a few days.
 
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watchnerd

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Any idea how the 705P compares to the Dynaudio Lyd series? The Lyd 8 has an 8" inch driver but the 705P goes lower in the bass, at least on paper. The Lyd is cheaper though.

Yes, I auditioned the 705P vs the LYD 5 and 8 in my home.

As for the 705P having more bass the the LYD 8, sure didn't feel / sound that way to me. The LYD 8 definitely had more oomph. And if you put the LYD 8 bass extension switch in the -10 Hz position, it goes even deeper.

However, for my intended application (amateur recording mixing) of nearfield monitoring as part of a DAW, I sent both the 705P and LYD8 back. I kept the LYD 5 and added the DSP-matched subwoofer.

The 705P was very good, but it seemed more tuned for cinema mastering than nearfield music mixing; it had incredible jump factor and dynamics, but wasn't as detailed, resolving or balanced at lower volumes as either of the LYD models. It also seemed slightly more colored in the treble then the LYD series, but the compression driver vs soft dome sounds are so distinct from each other its almost apples vs oranges.

It seemed to perform best when cranked to volumes greater than what I use for reference levels, normally in the 60-70 dB range, which is ultimately why I sent them back: the LYDs did better at lower-mid volumes, with also less ear fatigue.

That being said, I think the 705P is an amazing tool for what its best at. It just wasn't a match for my scenario.

FWIW, pairing the LYD 5 ($1200/pair) with matching Sub 18S ($2000) gives me both: greater dynamics, higher max spl, and much deeper bass. But that's about $1200 more than a pair of 705P.
 

stunta

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With the 305P, I feel like I am sitting too far from it. I like the sound more when I am sitting on the coffee table thats between the speakers and the sofa. Sofa to one speaker is about 10 feet. Is "near field" quantified? What makes a speaker near field?

Looks like all of these - 305P, 705P and the Lyd series are near field monitors. Is it not optimal to be using them at 10 feet distance?
 

RayDunzl

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watchnerd

watchnerd

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With the 305P, I feel like I am sitting too far from it. I like the sound more when I am sitting on the coffee table thats between the speakers and the sofa. Sofa to one speaker is about 10 feet. Is "near field" quantified? What makes a speaker near field?

Looks like all of these - 305P, 705P and the Lyd series are near field monitors. Is it not optimal to be using them at 10 feet distance?

10 feet is definitely not nearfield.

Most would call that midfield.

It's hard to find an exact definition, but one general real of thumb is that the nearfield listening involves hear much more of the directly radiated (usually on-axis) sound of the monitor and much much less of the reflections from the room than you get with more normal consumer listening distances.

As a point of reference, I can almost touch my LYD5s when sitting at my DAW...and if I lean forward about 3 inches, I can touch them. So basically they're arm's length away from my listening position.

Not all of the LYD series is for nearfield....the LYD 48 is marketed as also usable as a midfield monitor.
 
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watchnerd

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Looking, and don't see a single definitive answer.
With the 305P, I feel like I am sitting too far from it. I like the sound more when I am sitting on the coffee table thats between the speakers and the sofa. Sofa to one speaker is about 10 feet. Is "near field" quantified? What makes a speaker near field?

Looks like all of these - 305P, 705P and the Lyd series are near field monitors. Is it not optimal to be using them at 10 feet distance?

As an additional data point, Genelec makes a pretty cool chart about which monitors should be used at which listening distances / room volumes / SPLs.

It roughly correlates (as you'd expect) to woofer size and amp output. You can see that the bigger monitors, which are "green" at farther distances, are "red" up close...and vice versa for the smaller monitors.

10 feet / 3 meters is smack in the middle of the table.

It's page 20 in the linked PDF:

https://www.genelec.com/sites/defau...itors/Catalogues/monitor_setup_guide_2017.pdf
 

DonH56

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The definition of near field and far field is straightforward for RF antennae, a little less so for acoustics but is defined by the IEC:

Near Field
that part of a sound field, usually within about two wavelengths of a noise source, where there is no simple relationship between sound level and distance, where the sound pressure does not obey the inverse square law and the particle velocity is not in phase with the sound pressure.

Near Sound Field Definition IEC 801-23-29
sound field near a sound source where instantaneous sound pressure and particle velocity are substantially out of phase

The rule of thumb I have used is two wavelengths for sound assuming no boundary interactions; otherwise, in the sound field before any boundary interactions like wall reflections interfere with the sound field. Of course you have to define the lowest frequency of interest to use the definition. For RF work, the rule of thumb is three wavelengths from the antenna, IIRC.

For speakers, an additional constraint is that you have to be far enough away for the wavefronts from multiple drivers to coalesce, which limits how close to them you can be.

FWIWFM - Don
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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The definition of near field and far field is straightforward for RF antennae, a little less so for acoustics but is defined by the IEC:



The rule of thumb I have used is two wavelengths for sound assuming no boundary interactions; otherwise, in the sound field before any boundary interactions like wall reflections interfere with the sound field. Of course you have to define the lowest frequency of interest to use the definition. For RF work, the rule of thumb is three wavelengths from the antenna, IIRC.

For speakers, an additional constraint is that you have to be far enough away for the wavefronts from multiple drivers to coalesce, which limits how close to them you can be.

FWIWFM - Don

20 Hz wavelength = 56 feet

Okay, not much music there, so maybe irrelevant.

But...

40 Hz wavelength = 28 feet

Lots of lower end bass notes and piano at 40 Hz.

And 28 feet is pretty damn far.

This doesn't seem like a very useful method when it comes to sound.
 

DonH56

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You need to be within two wavelengths, more or less, so most any deep bass puts you in nearfield. But in a typical room you'll hit a boundary way before a wavelength at those frequencies so you have to be careful making that assumption. Put another way, if you sit six feet from your speakers, nearfield is roughly 376 Hz and below. At three feet, more like a desktop monitoring position, it's ~751 Hz and below. Other things are going on so you may have to go back to basic physics for a more definitive answer (as well as know details of the soundfield emitted by your speakers). I just quoted the IEC definition, which matches IEEE and AES, I think... Getting old, foggy memory.

p.s. The lowest note on an 88-key piano is 27.5 Hz (low A); the big Bosendorfers go to low C (~16 Hz).
 

stunta

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if you sit six feet from your speakers, nearfield is roughly 376 Hz and below.

Does this mean that as the listener starts to move further than 6 feet from the speakers, frequencies below 376 Hz will start to drop off in amplitude more rapidly than frequencies above it? If so, by how much?
 
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Old Listener

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With the 305P, I feel like I am sitting too far from it. I like the sound more when I am sitting on the coffee table thats between the speakers and the sofa. Sofa to one speaker is about 10 feet. Is "near field" quantified? What makes a speaker near field?

Looks like all of these - 305P, 705P and the Lyd series are near field monitors. Is it not optimal to be using them at 10 feet distance?

I'm using Dynaudio LYD 48 monitors in a 21 by 15 by 9 foot room. My listening position is about 9-9.5 feet from each speaker. That's farther than the ideal listening distance of 1.5 to 2.5 meters recommended in the manual but they sound fine to me.

Sound levels at my listening position are at or below 80 dB for most of my listening.
 
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watchnerd

watchnerd

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You need to be within two wavelengths, more or less, so most any deep bass puts you in nearfield. But in a typical room you'll hit a boundary way before a wavelength at those frequencies so you have to be careful making that assumption. Put another way, if you sit six feet from your speakers, nearfield is roughly 376 Hz and below. At three feet, more like a desktop monitoring position, it's ~751 Hz and below. Other things are going on so you may have to go back to basic physics for a more definitive answer (as well as know details of the soundfield emitted by your speakers). I just quoted the IEC definition, which matches IEEE and AES, I think... Getting old, foggy memory.

p.s. The lowest note on an 88-key piano is 27.5 Hz (low A); the big Bosendorfers go to low C (~16 Hz).

While the IEC definition isn't wrong, it's definitely more granular and precise than what is usually used in the recording industry and by the makers of recording monitors.
 

DonH56

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Does this mean that as the listener starts to move further than 6 feet from the speakers, frequencies below 376 Hz will start to drop off in amplitude more rapidly than frequencies above it? If so, by how much?

They'll start to follow normal (far-field) acoustic propagation characteristics and drop off (roughly) the same, depending upon the speaker's dispersion characteristics, natch. Before being impacted by boundary reflections leading to room mods and all that jazz.

Look guys (and gals or whatever), acoustics is not my day job, I just quoted what I "know" from previous experience and definitions I remember. As in my day job, when someone questions a basic principle, I try to provide an answer in those terms, be it audio, RF, or whatever. That is why I found and quoted the IEC. Heaven knows the industry (any field of industry) tends to develop their own definitions. Outside my field of so-called expertise I am not competent to comment nor debate. I'll leave that to the experts.
 
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