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It WILL oversample it, but that won't add any musical information not already present in the file. The oversampling is done merely as a technical step in the process of turning the digital signal into a proper analog waveform. It reduces rounding errors, if you will.
44 and 48KHz are actually very high quality if preserved intact all the way to the DAC. Particularly with a good DAC, such as the Gustard X16.
Error correction. But oversampling/upsample filtering like a pc do i mean, making low-res sounds by playstation via optical or whatever cable, i guess we were talking about that..?
That would mean not any new-great measuring expensive dac's doesn't do it, and to get it i should get expensive sony Ta-zh1es with Dsee-hx upsampling..?
Error correction. But oversampling/upsample filtering like a pc do i mean, making low-res sounds by playstation via optical or whatever cable, i guess we were talking about that..?
That would mean not any new-great measuring expensive dac's doesn't do it, and to get it i should get expensive sony Ta-zh1es with Dsee-hx upsampling..?
No oversampling/upsampling will add musical information not already present in the original file. Period. This is true regardless of whether it takes place in software or in the DAC chip.
The only reason to use upsampling software on your PC is if it can do a better job at it than the DAC itself. Unless you are using a very old DAC, it usually can't. But some software, such as HQPlayer, can be programmed to perform extremely high quality upsampling. It generally requires a dedicated, very fast computer to do this, with a hefty cooling system. Not something for the average DAC user to be concerned with. Particularly not with the quality of DACs like X16.
Error correction. But oversampling/upsample filtering like a pc do i mean, making low-res sounds by playstation via optical or whatever cable, i guess we were talking about that..?
No. "Low-res" is plenty, 16/44kHz CD standard was created by smart people. And again, upsampling and oversampling are different things.. one generally doesn't need "upsampling", just let the DAC do what it's made for and it's all good..
Okok, i will.. Stay ok with it..
But i heard with TV since it's great optical master clock, can have problems? I have a flagship 2020 samsung 4k tv, short hdmi by playstation for audio, then optical tv > dac.
And i heard thx aaa 887 amps does clip with high gain over 2 volts, but i use it anyway cause to me sounds better, hope it doesn't lower the sinad much?
Yeah it's the recommended option here, but on high gain there is more less crosstalk and wider stage, and with planars at least, i find the sound is even more unlocked and powerful.. With La-qxd1 which i'll sell soon, i use xlr on 887 and therr is 4,3volts, it creates distortion, if i lower by 3 steps of 30, not sure how volts i get but maybe 4volts, and the sound is clean to me. So not sure if with X16 on 4,1V how much it distortors, should be fine, i can't measure, i'll try as soon i receive it.
Yeah it's the recommended option here, but on high gain there is more less crosstalk and wider stage, and with planars at least, i find the sound is even more unlocked and powerful.. With La-qxd1 which i'll sell soon, i use xlr on 887 and therr is 4,3volts, it creates distortion, if i lower by 3 steps of 30, not sure how volts i get but maybe 4volts, and the sound is clean to me. So not sure if with X16 on 4,1V how much it distortors, should be fine, i can't measure, i'll try as soon i receive it.
I would like to share my thoughts for the Gustard X16 in combination with Bluesound node 2i , I purchase it through audiophonics , I had already changed the power supply with a linear supply from PD creative (Poland] , all these components together create a “package” that has exceptional value for money audio quality, clarity , soundstage everything is clearly enhanced , if the brand name of this dac was some well known European brand easliy the asking price could be well over 1.000 € , bravo Gustard , bravo audiosciencereview for making these products well known to the public , otherwise I wouldn’t have bought this product from a company I never heard before !
P.S. For users using TIDAL don’t use the mqa external dac option , also don’t use the audio clock trim and set the output level to fixed through the setting in BluOS app
Have I correctly understood that from D70S / D90(MQA) / SMSL SU-9 / Cambridge DacMagic 200M / Gustard X16 only Gustard supports MQA rendering via non usb ports ?
Have I correctly understood that from D70S / D90(MQA) / SMSL SU-9 / Cambridge DacMagic 200M / Gustard X16 only Gustard supports MQA rendering via non usb ports ?
read a lot of negative comments about cambridge DacMagic 200M on this site. So at the moment I'm choosing between Gustard X16 / Topping D70S / SMSL SU-9
That must be a mistake. There is no way it COULD work in BT mode, since the stream is transcoded in the BT transmission. And in many cases also resampled. So any MQA data would be mangled.
That's actually the right question. When you look at the whole process of mqa you will see things like first or Hardware unfold ect. When you also look into the tidal app and how they treat flac and mqa it gets confusing.
The answer is, currently no one knows exactly.
That's actually the right question. When you look at the whole process of mqa you will see things like first or Hardware unfold ect. When you also look into the tidal app and how they treat flac and mqa it gets confusing.
The answer is, currently no one knows exactly.
Think about it: Even if the Tidal app performs first unfold when playing through BT (UAPP does that) the resulting stream is majorly changed by the BT process. Transcoded and most likely resampled. There will be no MQA data left for the DAC to process.
I guess Gustard can technically claim MQA rendering through BT since it is done by the ESS chip, same as from all other inputs. But it will never happen in praxis, as the MQA data will not be intact from BT.
It's easy to check for anybody who has Tidal on their phone and a X16 (I have A18 which only does MQA through USB). I'll be interested to hear if anybody can get the OFS display from BT.
You'll still get first unfold if your client app performs it. Again, UAPP does, maybe Tidal app too. I can check audio-flinger dumps from the Tidal app and see if it performs first unfold before BT transcode. But even if it does, that's still completely independent of the DAC.
Edit:
Testing the Tidal app on my my LG V30 when playing a 24/44 MQA track through BT, it does NOT perform first MQA unfold (so-called Core decode). So that alone would prevent it from rendering on a DAC that doesn't itself decode MQA (such as X16, which only performs full decoding through USB, but DOES perform MQA rendering through all other inputs).
Of course it ALSO then transcodes into the BT codec (LDAC in my case). Since all BT codecs are lossy, there is zero chance that the MQA would survive, even if the first unfold had been performed.
Good news is it re-samples straight from its source to the BT sample rate (96Khz in my case). IOW there isn't an intermediate resampling to 48KHz, as one could have otherwise feared.
For those interested, I am including the audio_flinger output thread below, which shows a single clean Mixer thread converting the source 24/44 track into a 32/96 BT encoded track. If any MQA decoding had taken place, the source would have been 24/88.
Output thread 0xe2a83f00, name AudioOut_6D, tid 17816, type 0 (MIXER):
I/O handle: 109
Standby: no
Sample rate: 96000 Hz
HAL frame count: 1920
HAL format: 0x3 (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_32_BIT)
HAL buffer size: 15360 bytes
Channel count: 2
Channel mask: 0x00000003 (front-left, front-right)
Processing format: 0x3 (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_32_BIT)
Processing frame size: 8 bytes
Pending config events: none
Output device: 0x80 (AUDIO_DEVICE_OUT_BLUETOOTH_A2DP)
Input device: 0 (AUDIO_DEVICE_NONE)
Audio source: 0 (default)
Normal frame count: 1920
Last write occurred (msecs): 15
Total writes: 3745
Delayed writes: 6
Blocked in write: yes
Suspend count: 0
Sink buffer : 0xe29ed000
Mixer buffer: 0xe32fa000
Effect buffer: 0xe1d9e000
Fast track availMask=0xfe
Standby delay ns=3000000000
AudioStreamOut: 0xe568eb00 flags 0 (AUDIO_OUTPUT_FLAG_NONE)
Frames written: 7190400
Suspended frames: 0
Hal stream dump:
Thread throttle time (msecs): 5180
AudioMixer tracks: 0x00000003
Master mono: off
No FastMixer
Stream volumes in dB: 0:-10, 1:-20, 2:-23, 3:0, 4:-23, 5:-23, 6:0, 7:-18, 8:-22, 9:-96, 10:-13, 11:0, 12:0
Normal mixer raw underrun counters: partial=0 empty=0
2 Tracks of which 1 are active
Name Active Client Type Fmt Chn mask Session fCount S F SRate L dB R dB VS dB Server Main buf Aux buf Flags UndFrmCnt Flushed
0 no 1061 12 00000005 00000003 0 5760 S 1 96000 0 0 0 00046C80 E29ED000 00000000 0x401 3844 0
1 yes 25837 3 00000006 00000003 505 22050 A 3 44100 0 0 0 000378E3 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
1 Effect Chains
1 effects for session 505
In buffer Out buffer Active tracks:
0xe87cf000 0xe8834000 -> 0xe1d9e000 1
Effect ID 299:
Session Status State Engine:
00505 000 003 0xe6e206b0
Descriptor:
- UUID: 08B8B058-0590-11E5-AC71-0025B32654A0
- TYPE: 08B8B058-0590-11E5-AC71-0025B32654A0
- apiVersion: E6E48218
- flags: 00C00280 (conn. mode: insert, insert pref: any, volume mgmt: requires indication, device indication: requires updates, input mode: not set, output mode: not set, offloadable)
- name: Volume listener for Music
- implementor: Qualcomm Technologies Inc.
- Input configuration:
Frames Smp rate Channels Format Buffer
01920 96000 00000003 1 (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_16_BIT) 0xe87cf000
- Output configuration:
Buffer Frames Smp rate Channels Format
0xe8834000 01920 96000 00000003 1 (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_16_BIT)
1 Clients:
Pid Priority Ctrl Locked client server
1061 0 yes yes 0 0
Local log:
12-06 12:16:01.552 CFG_EVENT_CREATE_AUDIO_PATCH: old device 0x80 (AUDIO_DEVICE_OUT_BLUETOOTH_A2DP) new device 0x80 (AUDIO_DEVICE_OUT_BLUETOOTH_A2DP)
12-06 12:16:01.558 addTrack_l (0xe50c8500) 1 no 16665 3 00000001 00000003 441 11568 A 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
12-06 12:16:01.815 removeTrack_l (0xe50c8500) 1 no 16665 3 00000001 00000003 441 11568 T 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x600 964 0
12-06 12:16:30.825 addTrack_l (0xe50c7300) 1 no 16665 3 00000001 00000003 449 11568 A 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
12-06 12:16:31.615 removeTrack_l (0xe50c7300) 1 no 16665 3 00000001 00000003 449 11568 T 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x601 964 0
12-06 12:17:06.801 addTrack_l (0xe50c8680) 1 no 16665 3 00000006 00000003 457 65536 A 1 96000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
12-06 12:17:46.067 removeTracks_l(0xe50c8680) 1 no 16665 3 00000006 00000003 457 65536 I 1 96000 0 0 0 00383880 E87CF000 00000000 0x600 0 51072
12-06 12:21:02.365 removeTrack_l (0xe50c8680) 1 no 16665 3 00000006 00000003 457 65536 T 1 96000 0 0 0 00383880 E29ED000 00000000 0x600 0 51072
12-06 12:23:46.982 addTrack_l (0xe50c8680) 1 no 16665 3 00000001 00000003 465 11568 A 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
12-06 12:23:47.518 removeTrack_l (0xe50c8680) 1 no 16665 3 00000001 00000003 465 11568 T 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x600 964 0
12-06 12:24:05.867 addTrack_l (0xe32dcd80) 1 no 16665 3 00000006 00000003 473 65536 A 1 192000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
12-06 12:24:12.696 removeTracks_l(0xe32dcd80) 1 no 16665 3 00000006 00000003 473 65536 I 1 192000 0 0 0 00122A00 E87CF000 00000000 0x400 0 54016
12-06 12:48:49.109 CFG_EVENT_CREATE_AUDIO_PATCH: old device 0x80 (AUDIO_DEVICE_OUT_BLUETOOTH_A2DP) new device 0x80 (AUDIO_DEVICE_OUT_BLUETOOTH_A2DP)
12-06 12:48:49.398 addTrack_l (0xe1dd01c0) 0 no 1061 12 00000005 00000003 0 5760 A 1 96000 0 0 0 00000000 E29ED000 00000000 0x000 0 0
12-06 12:48:51.315 removeTracks_l(0xe1dd01c0) 0 no 1061 12 00000005 00000003 0 5760 S 1 96000 0 0 0 00025080 E29ED000 00000000 0x401 1922 0
12-06 13:29:19.283 CFG_EVENT_CREATE_AUDIO_PATCH: old device 0x80 (AUDIO_DEVICE_OUT_BLUETOOTH_A2DP) new device 0x80 (AUDIO_DEVICE_OUT_BLUETOOTH_A2DP)
12-06 13:29:19.586 addTrack_l (0xe1dd01c0) 0 no 1061 12 00000005 00000003 0 5760 A 1 96000 0 0 0 00025080 E29ED000 00000000 0x401 1922 0
12-06 13:29:21.741 removeTracks_l(0xe1dd01c0) 0 no 1061 12 00000005 00000003 0 5760 S 1 96000 0 0 0 00046C80 E29ED000 00000000 0x401 3844 0
12-06 13:38:27.672 removeTrack_l (0xe32dcd80) 1 no 16665 3 00000006 00000003 473 65536 T 1 192000 0 0 0 00122A00 E29ED000 00000000 0x400 0 54016
12-06 13:38:30.508 addTrack_l (0xe32dcd80) 1 no 22927 3 00000001 00000003 497 11568 A 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
12-06 13:38:30.907 removeTrack_l (0xe32dcd80) 1 no 22927 3 00000001 00000003 497 11568 T 1 48000 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x600 964 0
12-06 13:51:27.943 addTrack_l (0xe50c8500) 1 no 25837 3 00000006 00000003 505 22050 A 1 44100 0 0 0 00000000 E87CF000 00000000 0x000 0 0
Yes sure but when I look into the latest data I don't know if those flashy words hold up. Maybe the difference here is the ess chip with internal hardware rendering, yet still it leaves the question if mqa used by tidal is doing something relevant.
Yes sure but when I look into the latest data I don't know if those flashy words hold up. Maybe the difference here is the ess chip with internal hardware rendering, yet still it leaves the question if mqa used by tidal is doing something relevant.
That's a whole other discussion. MQA didn't suddenly change because of GoldenOne's video. It does what it has always done, including how it's implemented in X16 and other DACs. It's not so mysterious.
The Tidal app just includes the MQA Core decoder as it has for ~3 years now; it decodes the first level (if origami is present) or upsamples (if origami isn't present). Either way the output is 2X the base sample rate (88.2 or 96KHz).
Some people may suddenly like MQA less than they did before that video (although many hated it already before). But that's nothing to do with this question about MQA through BT. We can still be scientific about this
Some people may suddenly like MQA less than they did before that video (although many hated it already before). But that's nothing to do with this question about MQA through BT. We can still be scientific about this
