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Recommendation request thread

paranoidbunny

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...a pair of studio monitors (speakers) rather than headphones...
...Harman Curve for headphones...
Thank you a ton! I already have good speakers, that I was lucky enough to be gifted by a dear friend who had a studio, but sadly died at a way too young age, so it's about being able to do this stuff also at my PC, while just enjoying music at times. The Harman Curve I like, that is why I started to enjoy the Fidelio X2HR again, still I am looking for something like the Sundara, but with a little bit more of punch in bass and lower mid-range.
 

Robbo99999

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Thank you a ton! I already have good speakers, that I was lucky enough to be gifted by a dear friend who had a studio, but sadly died at a way too young age, so it's about being able to do this stuff also at my PC, while just enjoying music at times. The Harman Curve I like, that is why I started to enjoy the Fidelio X2HR again, still I am looking for something like the Sundara, but with a little bit more of punch in bass and lower mid-range.
What about a Harman Curve EQ'd Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed RT:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbs8m0x6qcvnuhv/Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed RT.pdf?dl=0
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audio-aeon-rt-review-closed-headphone.19393/
Amir said it had really good soundstage, plus it's low distortion in the bass & everywhere, and you can basically EQ to it totally to the Harman Curve all the way down to 20Hz as seen in the Oratory EQ I linked above. It's $500, but depending which country you live prices vary widely. I don't think I'll recommend you the HD800s because I feel you like bass too much.

In terms of my own headphones, I could recommend you a Harman EQ'd NAD HP50 closed back which is defintely a significantly cheaper (perhaps less capable in the soundstage??) baby brother to the Dan Clark I recommended. That would be bought 2nd hand as they don't make it anymore and you need small'ish to normal ear size. For open backed I can't get better than Harman EQ'd AKG K702 for soundstage, and it's ok in bass but not as good as my HE4XX and HP50 in terms of bass, but better than my HD600 at bass. Given the high price you listed the Dan Clark might be a better fit, but we have to realise price bears no correlation to sound quality in general terms.
 

paranoidbunny

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Thank you a lot, the Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed RT was the one out of Amirs recommendations, that I thought would suit me most. Gonna see if i can find it anywhere by chance.
Edit: Found a couple Aeon 2 in good shape, would that be an upgrade from the RT? Price indicates that at least
Edit2: Ok now I can get a Aeon RT for 350€ or a Aeon 2 for 700€. Which to go for?
 
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Jimbob54

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Thank you a lot, the Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed RT was the one out of Amirs recommendations, that I thought would suit me most. Gonna see if i can find it anywhere by chance.
Edit: Found a couple Aeon 2 in good shape, would that be an upgrade from the RT? Price indicates that at least
Different tuning /pads but the 2 is collapsible.

The RT is only available from DCA website.
 

Robbo99999

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Thank you a lot, the Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed RT was the one out of Amirs recommendations, that I thought would suit me most. Gonna see if i can find it anywhere by chance.
Edit: Found a couple Aeon 2 in good shape, would that be an upgrade from the RT? Price indicates that at least
Edit2: Ok now I can get a Aeon RT for 350€ or a Aeon 2 for 700€. Which to go for?
Given how much pad swaps and other changes can affect frequency response & other characteristics, then I suggest you only purchase specific models that have been reviewed. So I definitely recommend the one Amir reviewed:
Dan Clark Audio AEON RT Review (closed headphone)
or Oratory describes it as:
Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed RT

Yeah, so don't get the Aeon 2 .

They're some good prices you got for the Aeon RT closed!
 

Robbo99999

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Thank you, so I could settle for the RT, gain experience and go from there.
Let us know how you get on, maybe a brief post in this thread, or a link to your own thread on your impressions, or a link to another thread with Dan Clark Aeon RT discussions.....Amir's review thread of the Dan Clark wouldn't be a bad place to put it.
 

Ravix

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Virtual 7.1 Surround Sound you would not use for music listening, that would just be for gaming. You use the SoundblasterX G6 in Direct Mode when listening to music (flick a button in the Soundblaster software) which puts the DAC into 2 channel stereo and removes any audio processing enhancements, at which point the G6 is just acting like a normal "music DAC". But for gaming you activate the Soundblaster software processing which allows you to get Virtual 7.1 Surround Sound. When in surround mode the DAC is actually appearing as a proper 7.1 channel system to the operating system, so that your games will think you have a real 7.1 surround system, and the software virtualises that surround sound into your headphones. It's really a very good system, and it enables me when I play BF1 to recognise enemy sounds both in front & behind & of course left & right.....if you're not running a virtual 7.1 surround sound for your headphones then you won't be able to distinguish sounds from front or back. It creates a very immersive gaming environment that enhances the soundscape and increases realism in addition to the competetive performance advantages of more accurate enemy sound position detection. When running 7.1 Virtual Surround Sound in my games I notice no decrease of audio quality, just enhanced realism and the other advantages I mentioned. Your games will need to be able have options in the Audio Menu of the game to select your sound system: options will be something like Stereo / 5.1 Surround Sound / 7.1 Surround Sound.....you'd choose the last option for best experience, even though the G6 will also process 5.1 Surround Sound (as you can set the G6 in Stereo / 5.1 / or 7.1). This journey has been a real eye opener for me and I don't need anything better than the G6 & K702 when it comes to gaming and also music.

(I do have a seperate headphone amp that I have connected to the G6, but you don't need that really, the K702 works well directly connected to the G6.....or that could be an upgrade that you decide to do later).

EDIT: you asked why you need a DAC. A DAC is just the terminology of Digital to Analogue Converter. Your PC and your phone already has this DAC - they're not special. The SoundblasterX G6 for example is actually a DAC/amp combo. This means it has a DAC portion that converts the digital signals to analogue, and then the headphone amp that is included within the G6 takes that anologue signal and amplifies it for your connected headphone. Headphones always need a DAC and always need an amp - your phone has both even, your PC has these even.......just you get better quality DACs & amps by buying seperate equipment that is not already built into your PC or phone for instance.....and in the case of the G6 it also has extra features like the virtual 7.1 surround sound processing. The G6 is a DAC/amp combo all-in-one device.......whereas for example the Topping E30 DAC is just a DAC that requires a person to buy a seperate headphone amp to attach to it........but the G6 is a DAC/amp combo that does both. The headphone amp in the G6 drives the K702 just fine, certainly enough power, easily.


Thanks a lot for the precisions :) The K702 really fine, would recommend against any beyerdynamics DT XXX ? About the EQ, do you have some recommandations for softwares to use on PC ? And what do you think about the AKG K371 as @Markini recommended (thank you by the way) ? And finally, could someone explain to me basically what's the difference between opened/closed back ? I know opened back are more "noisy" from the outside, but that do they bring ? Thanks a lot for all the informations and recommandations, I really appreciate it
 

Robbo99999

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Thanks a lot for the precisions :) The K702 really fine, would recommend against any beyerdynamics DT XXX ? About the EQ, do you have some recommandations for softwares to use on PC ? And what do you think about the AKG K371 as @Markini recommended (thank you by the way) ? And finally, could someone explain to me basically what's the difference between opened/closed back ? I know opened back are more "noisy" from the outside, but that do they bring ? Thanks a lot for all the informations and recommandations, I really appreciate it
Hi, no problem. EQ software on PC, I use Equaliser APO, it's free and completely integrates with the windows audio chain, so anything you listen to through any players or internet browsers will have the EQ applied - it's probably the most used EQ solution for PC, it's a very versatile & powerful program, however it can be a bit confusing until you understand the logic of how it's put together.......if you find Equaliser APO too confusing to use to start with, then install PEACE, which is an "add-on" to Equaliser APO and gives you a graphical interface that most people find easier to start with. So you'd install Equaliser APO first, and then you'd install PEACE - they work together.

Beyerdynamics, I've not heard particularly good things about them, treble in these headphones can be quite piercing and they're not particularly good when EQ'd from the reviews I've seen (well I've seen Amir's review on here of a Beyerdynamic, I've not researched it, so just judging from that.).

AKG K371 you mention (a closed back headphone). That's a good headphone, with impressive bass, and just a slightly below perfect treble which can be almost completely fixed with EQ. The problem with K371 is that it probably doesn't have great soundstage from what I know of it's design, no angled pads or drivers, and from reviews I don't think it has impressions of fantastic soundstage. Don't forget that you want great soundstage if you're gonna be using your headphone for gaming, because it's that property that allows you accurately locate the direction of sounds around you. So really, I think you should try out the AKG K702 that I talked about with you a few days ago....because that has great soundstage, both in my experience of comparing it to my other headphones, and reports on internet....it's my most successful gaming headphone as well as my favourite music listening headphone.....and I know gaming is an important part of your headphone choice so K702 is very relevant.

You asked about closed back & open headphones, what is the difference. It's actually exactly as it's described - closed back headphones the back of the earcup is closed and not open to the air (so solid plastic without holes for instance) - and open back headphones have vent holes or wire mesh on the back of the earcup, so the space behind the headphone driver is open to the environment around you, which is why open backed headphones don't seal off the outside noise as well as closed backs. This changes the way a headphone can perform, and generally closed back headphones can play deep bass all the way down to the 20Hz, whereas open back headphones have the frequency response rolling off steeply somewhere below 100Hz, but this can all be pretty much fixed with EQ by boosting the bass in open backed headphones, with the only problem being that if you boost the bass too much you either run out of amplification power or the headphone will start distorting & the bass will sound loose & flabby for instance. Closed back are better at bass, but open backed headphones normally have better soundstage than closed back, but that's not always the case.
 
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Ravix

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Hi, no problem. EQ software on PC, I use Equaliser APO, it's free and completely integrates with the windows audio chain, so anything you listen to through any players or internet browsers will have the EQ applied - it's probably the most used EQ solution for PC, it's a very versatile & powerful program, however it can be a bit confusing until you understand the logic of how it's put together.......if you find Equaliser APO too confusing to use to start with, then install PEACE, which is an "add-on" to Equaliser APO and gives you a graphical interface that most people find easier to start with. So you'd install Equaliser APO first, and then you'd install PEACE - they work together.

Beyerdynamics, I've not heard particularly good things about them, treble in these headphones can be quite piercing and they're not particularly good when EQ'd from the reviews I've seen (well I've seen Amir's review on here of a Beyerdynamic, I've not researched it, so just judging from that.).

AKG K371 you mention (a closed back headphone). That's a good headphone, with impressive bass, and just a slightly below perfect treble which can be almost completely fixed with EQ. The problem with K371 is that it probably doesn't have great soundstage from what I know of it's design, no angled pads or drivers, and from reviews I don't think it has impressions of fantastic soundstage. Don't forget that you want great soundstage if you're gonna be using your headphone for gaming, because it's that property that allows you accurately locate the direction of sounds around you. So really, I think you should try out the AKG K702 that I talked about with you a few days ago....because that has great soundstage, both in my experience of comparing it to my other headphones, and reports on internet....it's my most successful gaming headphone as well as my favourite music listening headphone.....and I know gaming is an important part of your headphone choice so K702 is very relevant.

You asked about closed back & open headphones, what is the difference. It's actually exactly as it's described - closed back headphones the back of the earcup is closed and not open to the air (so solid plastic without holes for instance) - and open back headphones have vent holes or wire mesh on the back of the earcup, so the space behind the headphone driver is open to the environment around you, which is why open backed headphones don't seal off the outside noise as well as closed backs. This changes the way a headphone can perform, and generally closed back headphones can play deep bass all the way down to the 20Hz, whereas open back headphones have the frequency response rolling off steeply somewhere below 100Hz, but this can all be pretty much fixed with EQ by boosting the bass in open backed headphones, with the only problem being that if you boost the bass too much you either run out of amplification power or the headphone will start distorting & the bass will sound loose & flabby for instance. Closed back are better at bass, but open backed headphones normally have better soundstage than closed back, but that's not always the case.

Thank you for everything, I will completely trust you on this ! I've ordered a K702 with a SBX G6 as per your recommandations. I've looked around and some other dacs/combos were recommanded as well but G6 was the most easy to find. I just hope there won't be some weird thing with the software or installation :d Thank you again, this forum is gold <3
 

Robbo99999

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Thank you for everything, I will completely trust you on this ! I've ordered a K702 with a SBX G6 as per your recommandations. I've looked around and some other dacs/combos were recommanded as well but G6 was the most easy to find. I just hope there won't be some weird thing with the software or installation :d Thank you again, this forum is gold <3
Cool, I hope you like them. When you get them, send me a PM or something, I'll let you know what EQ I'm using.....at the moment I'm using my own EQ done to the Harman Curve using a measurement from Crinacle. However, Oratory has my K702 which he'll be measuring over the coming days or weeks, so there should be an Oratory EQ & measurement for the K702 soon too. I can also give you some pointers on setting up the G6 for surround sound gaming as well as music listening.....to optimise both so you can get the most out of it.
 

Ravix

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Cool, I hope you like them. When you get them, send me a PM or something, I'll let you know what EQ I'm using.....at the moment I'm using my own EQ done to the Harman Curve using a measurement from Crinacle. However, Oratory has my K702 which he'll be measuring over the coming days or weeks, so there should be an Oratory EQ & measurement for the K702 soon too. I can also give you some pointers on setting up the G6 for surround sound gaming as well as music listening.....to optimise both so you can get the most out of it.

Sure I'll PM you, I should receive in two days :) I've look at your link of Oratory post and I've seen he made an EQ for "K702 65th Anniversary Edition", isn't that the same set ? Also who is he ? Just someone who balances EQ for different headsets ? I still need to inform myself on what is the famous Harman Curve, and I find I suitable EQ, I'll try the one you recommended me
 

Robbo99999

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Sure I'll PM you, I should receive in two days :) I've look at your link of Oratory post and I've seen he made an EQ for "K702 65th Anniversary Edition", isn't that the same set ? Also who is he ? Just someone who balances EQ for different headsets ? I still need to inform myself on what is the famous Harman Curve, and I find I suitable EQ, I'll try the one you recommended me
K702 65th Anniversary Edition is a different headphone to our K702, so don't use that EQ. There doesn't exist an "officially published" EQ of the K702 to a Harman Curve, because the K702 hasn't been measured on any GRAS measuring devices, apart from Crinacle's measurement, and Crinacle doesn't publish EQ's, he publishes the measurements. However, I did an EQ to the Harman Curve using Crinacle's measurement, so as far as I know that's the "most accurate" (to the Harman Curve) EQ for the K702 that exists at the moment, here it is given we're talking about it:
Crinicle K702 best measurement EQ (clear bass).jpg
However, Oratory will be measuring my headphone and doing an EQ for it, which he will eventually publish at that link I showed you. Oratory works in the audio business, working for a company that designs transducers for headphones & speakers, that's my understanding, but I might have gotten some of that wrong if I'm not remembering rightly. Either way, he has access to a GRAS measuring device through his profession, and he is able to use the kit during his own time (not company hours), so he measures these headphones on his own time (I guess as a hobby & interest) creating the measurements and the EQ's.....he's well known & well respected in headphone enthusiast spheres.

About the Headphone Harman Curve, yes, sure, research it here on ASR, there's loads of information on it.

EDIT 20/4: attached EqualiserAPO config text file for the above EQ to end of this post.
 

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kami

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Yeah, I can't comment on the soundstage aspect of that headphone as I've never listened to it, but my guess is that it wouldn't be a massively impressive soundstage headphone...because I think the earcups are not particularly big and I don't think it uses angled drivers or angled pads. I could also recommend you buy a used NAD HP50 (it's a closed back), I have that headphone and the soundstage is better than my open backed HD600, but HD600 is not known for a wide soundstage. NAD HP50 has many good qualities like a very smooth frequency response that can be successfully EQ'd with ease (no nasty sharp dips or peaks), it has exceptionally low distortion, it's very very easy to drive, and it's got good soundstage for a closed back headphone........one downside of the HP50 is that the earcups are quite small so you'd have to make sure your ears fit inside the earcups, you can find inner pad dimensions of different headphone on solderdude's website (https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/nad-viso-hp50/). HP50 has also been measured by Amir (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/nad-viso-hp50-review-headphone.19121/). Anecdotally the HP50 has a better soundstage than the K371, HP50 is also kinda advertised by the manufacturer as having good soundstage as part of their "RoomFeel Technology". I could also recommend the Dan Clark Aeon RT which is supposed to have good soundstage for a closed back, but it's way too expensive for your budget, reviewed by Amir (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audio-aeon-rt-review-closed-headphone.19393/)

EDIT: given the longevity concerns you may have with K371, and given you want a more impressive soundstage, then HP50 bought used could be a smart buy as HP50 doesn't have longevity issues and has that soundstage.


Hi @Robbo99999

I was lucky to find a pair of NAD HP50 for US$110 on ebay, they're apparently in very good condition.
It will take a while for them to arrive, they will be in Miami next Monday, and they'd probably arrive here during the first week of May.
Thanks for your recommendation, I will post my impressions here.

KM
 

Robbo99999

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Hi @Robbo99999

I was lucky to find a pair of NAD HP50 for US$110 on ebay, they're apparently in very good condition.
It will take a while for them to arrive, they will be in Miami next Monday, and they'd probably arrive here during the first week of May.
Thanks for your recommendation, I will post my impressions here.

KM
Cool, I have an EQ for that one too, try it if you like, it's based on Oratory's measurement:
NAD HP50 Oratory my own EQ.jpg
Yeah, let me know what you think to the HP50.

EDIT: @kami , I just updated this post with the EqualiserAPO config file for my EQ above, I also added one extra filter to it at 2000Hz that I had forgotten I was adding seperately to the EQ in the pic, but all of the correct filters are included in the text file at the end of this post. Also, your purchase of the HP50 inspired me to pull out my HP50 and give it some listening tonight, it's a very enjoyable headphone to listen to, really great bass & bass definition, good detail in the rest of the frequency range, and yes I think good soundstage for a closed back too....very enjoyable.

EDIT#2: On second thoughts after some further listening I think I decided not to include that 2000Hz filter, whilst it slightly improves soundstage subtly it does make it a tad harsher, so I'll reattach the EqualiserAPO config file with that filter deactivated, but feel free to reactivate that filter if you like it better.
 

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Robbo99999

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Hi @Robbo99999

I was lucky to find a pair of NAD HP50 for US$110 on ebay, they're apparently in very good condition.
It will take a while for them to arrive, they will be in Miami next Monday, and they'd probably arrive here during the first week of May.
Thanks for your recommendation, I will post my impressions here.

KM
Regarding posting your impressions of the HP50, provide a quick summary post in this thread (as this thread is more about recommendations), and if you want to go into more detail and have further discussions about the HP50 then post a more detailed post in the HP50 thread:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/nad-viso-hp50-review-headphone.19121/
In that case you could also provide a link in this thread to your post over in the HP50 thread.
 

Robbo99999

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@Robbo99999 I tried to PM you but got some errors and I can't seem to be able to send it, anyway I received the G6 and K702 :)
Will send you a PM, I think because you're a new member it won't let you start the PM.
 

paranoidbunny

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May I just ask something else, since the Aeon RT are amazing Closed Backs. Whats would be a straightish upgrade path for the EQd and already good and amazing for the price Fidelio X2HR? Thinking about an Audeze LCD-3, ZMF Auteur or Focal Clear.
 

Robbo99999

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May I just ask something else, since the Aeon RT are amazing Closed Backs. Whats would be a straightish upgrade path for the EQd and already good and amazing for the price Fidelio X2HR? Thinking about an Audeze LCD-3, ZMF Auteur or Focal Clear.
Judging by Amir's review, and his comment on the spaciousness of the X2HR, combined with the fact that they're open-backed, then I'd say AKG K702 are similar or perhaps even better for soundstage/spaciousness, and they also don't have such a funky frequency response. I've already recommended the K702 in this thread as it's my favourite headphone, so refer to this post of mine for some more detail: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...commendation-request-thread.20261/post-748098

I tend to recommend this headphone to people who want to prioritise soundstage and detail/high resolution in an open backed headphone, they're not as good as open backed planar headphones when it comes to bass, but in my experience K702 soundstage is better than open backed planar headphones (like my HifiMan HE4XX).

My recommendations are based on EQ'ing them to the Harman Curve, I don't particulary like the K702 without EQ'ing them, in fact I don't really like any of my headphones without EQ except for my Sennheiser HD600, but that's also my least favourite headphone when all of them are EQ'd!
 
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