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MASSDROP X Focal ELEX Review (headphone)

phoenixsong

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Classical music is said to have a dynamic range of 20-30+dB, such testing levels could account for that with extra headroom
 

Helicopter

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Thanks Amir. This reinforces my view that these are practically the same as original Clear with different finish, packaging, and accessories. They are a bargain, especially on BF 2020.

I wonder if they will do an MG version to go with the new Clear.

I wonder when someone will send the new Clear MG for testing.

I never bottomed out my Clear, even when I tried to crank it for a short test. The issues at high SPL just depend how loudly you listen it would seem. To me, it is similar to if the wheels on my Prius got squirrely above 100 MPH... not something that ever will be a problem, so I don't really care... sorry, car analogy. :facepalm:
 

McFly

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Classical music is said to have a dynamic range of 20-30+dB, such testing levels could account for that with extra headroom
Agreed, but then should speakers not also be swept at the same level? I must be missing something here. If your bottoming out drivers (yes I’m aware of fletcher munson curves) surely you’re also bottoming out your ear drums.
 

solderdude

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Agreed, but then should speakers not also be swept at the same level? I must be missing something here

This bugged me too. Why does Amir measure speakers at 96 dB and the bass distortion is horrible where headphones are measured at 114dB.
There still are good reasons.
114dB at 30Hz is just 80 Phon so not loud at all. 114dB at 3kHz is VERY loud.
114dB SPL is not 114 Phon (or dBA) for low frequencies but it is above 500Hz.

With the speaker measurements the question is what the SPL shows... at 1m or at a few meter listening position ?
Reaching 114dB at listening position with speakers requires a bunch of power but there are also room modes that amplify low bass frequencies, assuming speakers actually reach that at listening position.

Then there is the issue that at low frequencies and especially higher SPL in the lows we don't hear this with the ears but a large portion (no idea how much objectively) is detected by the body that uses it as 'input' for perceived lows.
This means that headphones need to compensate for this by boosting the lows (using EQ) so requiring a lot more dB's for the same 'sensation' in the lows people are looking for.

So this is why testing at 114dB (if it were only to find excursion limits) is useful for low frequencies. I would say ignore all THD in the 114dB plot above 100Hz. This may look very poor for anything above 1kHz but will be levels you won't be reaching.
If I could measure at those levels I would simply stop the sweep above 300Hz. Then again.... above that frequency one can see how bad things get even though it is of no practical consequence.
 

phoenixsong

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The need for bass boost is real in headphones. My mother did her Masters in a prestigious music school, and her entire university life was spent listening to top tier orchestras live and recordings through the best headphones of that time. When I was newer to this audio stuff I let her hear my then collection of headphones (AKG K712pros, HE400i and the like), and was both puzzled and skeptical when she went "the bass is too light, even compared with the headphones from my university". I assumed the present highly regarded headphones would be more technically advanced and therefore 100% "better". Only after learning about things like the Harman curve and the roll off measured in many open backed headphones did I realise how big of a difference it makes
 

dorirod

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Damn Amir, you're a machine! Thank you for another great review! I hope you are not burning yourself out with this pace.
 

Damian

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@amirm are they close enough to the Utopias? Or completely different beast... I’m torn to get this, the Arya or HD800S as end of game open headphones .
 

solderdude

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See the Elex as an alternative to the clear. It is not a cheap Utopia. There is quite some difference in the the treble quality/character.

tonal-balance-elear-clear-utopia1.png

Elear, Clear (think Elex) and Utopia. All heavily smoothed to get a better feel of the tonal balance in the highs.
Utopia is closer to EQ'ed HD800S in many aspects.
 

Helicopter

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@amirm are they close enough to the Utopias? Or completely different beast... I’m torn to get this, the Arya or HD800S as end of game open headphones .
Here are my thoughts on the two:

HD800S
Better spatial effects.
Better comfort.
Can play loud without any issue.
Better OEM cables.

Clear (and probably Elex)
Good spatial effects.
Comfortable.
Can run with your phone.
Better tonality without EQ.
Better connectors for DIY or custom cables.
Better price.

I am not sure if I really prefer one or the other. I am keeping both for a while... at least until the next gen Utopia comes or I break down and get Clear MG.
 

Weebster

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While you are over your shock of the poor performance at higher SPLs, have you tested enough headphones that you feel comfortable abandoning that as a good criteria for recommendation?

Maybe it's home theater bias, but not having high SPL output available to me, for a person to sell me a "high end headphone" and omit that capability is just wrong. I really think that if MOST manufacturers at the high end can hit that, it's just not something that's acceptable. I'm sure there will be apologists for whatever reason, and if the driver fits your criteria, great, but I don't think standards should be lowered if it comes out that there are a large amount of high end headphones that don't have this issue with high SPL.
Personally, since 85-87 dB is considered to cause hearing damage with prolonged exposure and 100 dB is the approximate volume of a nightclub or piano played at fortissimo I don't believe that the 114 dB measurement is a fair review metric. I think it is great info to have since it tells us about the headphone and what may happen if we turn it up too much, but since it cannot be reasonably expected that people will listen at that volume I would have a very tough time calling that a manufacturing/design flaw.
However, as you alluded to, loudspeakers are a different manner. If my tower speakers could only handle 100 dB of output I would be very choked indeed, since quite regularly I am not sitting directly in front of them, and I often roam around my house while wanting to keep "feeling" the music.
 

Racheski

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Personally, since 85-87 dB is considered to cause hearing damage with prolonged exposure and 100 dB is the approximate volume of a nightclub or piano played at fortissimo I don't believe that the 114 dB measurement is a fair review metric. I think it is great info to have since it tells us about the headphone and what may happen if we turn it up too much, but since it cannot be reasonably expected that people will listen at that volume I would have a very tough time calling that a manufacturing/design flaw.
However, as you alluded to, loudspeakers are a different manner. If my tower speakers could only handle 100 dB of output I would be very choked indeed, since quite regularly I am not sitting directly in front of them, and I often roam around my house while wanting to keep "feeling" the music.
Read post #367 from @amirm
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-diana-v2-review-headphone.19291/post-638365
 

Objectivist01

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I was close to getting this and then I tried the elear at a store. It felt heavy and then continues using my senn hd 660. Not because they sounded better but they were comfortable.
 

Aerith Gainsborough

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There is a substantial difference between peaks of 90dB SPL (very comfortable level of around 80dB) and 90dBA average levels which is quite loud.
Good catch, I am listening at ~90dB unweighted transient peak level.

Why are headphones getting 114db sweeps??? that’s like, threshold of pain loud isn’t it?
My guess: Amir senpai uses that rather unorthodox value just to see how much headroom the driver has. It's meant as an academic data point not as "listen at this volume, ladies and gents!".

I was close to getting this and then I tried the elear at a store. It felt heavy and then continues using my senn hd 660. Not because they sounded better but they were comfortable.
Yup, weight is definitely an issue with my Clear as well. By comparison, my DT-880 feels light as a feather. Oo
 
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tential

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Personally, since 85-87 dB is considered to cause hearing damage with prolonged exposure and 100 dB is the approximate volume of a nightclub or piano played at fortissimo I don't believe that the 114 dB measurement is a fair review metric. I think it is great info to have since it tells us about the headphone and what may happen if we turn it up too much, but since it cannot be reasonably expected that people will listen at that volume I would have a very tough time calling that a manufacturing/design flaw.
However, as you alluded to, loudspeakers are a different manner. If my tower speakers could only handle 100 dB of output I would be very choked indeed, since quite regularly I am not sitting directly in front of them, and I often roam around my house while wanting to keep "feeling" the music.

If you were to turn up a headphone/speaker of any high end unit and hear crackling /high distortion in bass, that's not really going to fly with me personally. I think the below post covers why better than I did for the scenario I care about most, but still, I'm forgiving of such flaws in a budget unit. In $700-1000+ units, it just sounds like people making an excuse for why their personal/favorite headphone is relevant, rather than accepting the flaw and demanding better.

This bugged me too. Why does Amir measure speakers at 96 dB and the bass distortion is horrible where headphones are measured at 114dB.
There still are good reasons.
114dB at 30Hz is just 80 Phon so not loud at all. 114dB at 3kHz is VERY loud.
114dB SPL is not 114 Phon (or dBA) for low frequencies but it is above 500Hz.

With the speaker measurements the question is what the SPL shows... at 1m or at a few meter listening position ?
Reaching 114dB at listening position with speakers requires a bunch of power but there are also room modes that amplify low bass frequencies, assuming speakers actually reach that at listening position.

Then there is the issue that at low frequencies and especially higher SPL in the lows we don't hear this with the ears but a large portion (no idea how much objectively) is detected by the body that uses it as 'input' for perceived lows.
This means that headphones need to compensate for this by boosting the lows (using EQ) so requiring a lot more dB's for the same 'sensation' in the lows people are looking for.

So this is why testing at 114dB (if it were only to find excursion limits) is useful for low frequencies. I would say ignore all THD in the 114dB plot above 100Hz. This may look very poor for anything above 1kHz but will be levels you won't be reaching.
If I could measure at those levels I would simply stop the sweep above 300Hz. Then again.... above that frequency one can see how bad things get even though it is of no practical consequence.
 

snowsurfer

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I was close to getting this and then I tried the elear at a store. It felt heavy and then continues using my senn hd 660. Not because they sounded better but they were comfortable.

IMO even the best sounding headphones are absolutely worthless if I am not comfortable using them for hours and hours while barely noticing them on my head, so I'd say that was the correct choice, and one I've made several times when choosing headphones myself.
 

Robbo99999

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Thanks for the review Amir. The investigation into spatiality is the most interesting for me. I have the HD650, Ananda and Susvara. How each one presents that affect is so unique and fascinating. There seems to be very little attempt to deconstruct the science in that area. It's only you and Resolve, who have openly spoke about trying to see whats happening.
Yes, given the large ear cups & angled drivers of this open backed headphone I'd be curious how it's soundstage would compare to say the HD800s and the K702 (this one I own). I think it's one of the most important aspects of a headphone so it would be good to try to add some "science" behind it. I would imagine this Focal Elex would give the HD800s a run for it's money (in general) if it has as good a soundstage as I expect it would given the large ear cups and angled drivers.
 

Helicopter

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Yes, given the large ear cups & angled drivers of this open backed headphone I'd be curious how it's soundstage would compare to say the HD800s and the K702 (this one I own). I think it's one of the most important aspects of a headphone so it would be good to try to add some "science" behind it. I would imagine this Focal Elex would give the HD800s a run for it's money (in general) if it has as good a soundstage as I expect it would given the large ear cups and angled drivers.
The Focal is close to HD800S, but it is clearly behind it in this regard.
 

Robbo99999

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The Focal is close to HD800S, but it is clearly behind it in this regard.
Ah, if that's the case, then I don't see this Elex as an HD800s challenger in general even.
 

mkawa

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i have both the hd800s and the elex. EQ'd to the same target with oratory's settings, they still have slightly different characters. i don't carefully level match or anything when i switch between them, but the elex has a bit more oomph, as it were. it's probably due to not having oratory's post eq 6-ish khz dip and deviating upwards from harman above 10k. i find the hd800s easier to listen to for a longer period of time.

i may either have a particularly good sample, or just not listen that loud, because i've never heard a crackle or click from my elex. ymmv i guess

oh, and i'd easily buy them both again.
 

ClosDeLaRoche

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Comfort is okay, but I do find after a few hours that the clamp pressure gets a bit much and can cause a headache. I find them much more comfortable than the HD6XX however which is lighter but has a truly horrible clamp pressure for extended listening.

This is really easy to fix. Fully extend the earcups of the HD6XX, then grab the metal sliders, one at a time, and bend them back gently. Put the HD6XX back on your head and see how they feel. If it still clamps keep repeating this process until they are comfortable.

Once you get the clamp right the HD6XX's comfort blows Focal headphones away. One of the reasons I sold my Elear was comfort issues.
 
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