McGurk can’t be applied to HiFi

[AnalogSteph]

On the subject of which...
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
- forgot who that's from, but I'm pretty certain I first came across it in the early days of forums or even on Usenet, so mid-2000s or earlier. If I've learned anything since then, it's that it is as true now as it was 20 years ago. So guess what, I'm outta here.

 

[threni]

if what they know exceeds yours of course you cede their better knowledge, but only if it makes sense. If your leg felt fine, you’d question why the leg has a tumour. He come back with something that either made sense, in which case great, if not a second opinion if he wanted to hack it open.

just like in this case, I raised a valid judgement that this seminar guy was saying, to which everyone said you just believe him. Sorry mate , that’s not how the world works and in my analogy with the leg it wouldn’t work for you that way too.

Felt fine? So...if you walk into a room and someone's banging on the window and shouting "Get out! There's radiation in there" you'd go "here we go! another expert! Sure, you can measure the radiation but I can't feel it. Feels better in than in that cold 'lead room' you're always hanging around in!" ?

I think "makes sense" to you means "says something I already agree with". In which case, why do you persist in repeating the same mixture of faulty analogy, poor logic and ignorance here? You're not taking part in the conversation in good faith. You're passing up an opportunity to learn from experts. Seems like a waste of time you posting here, to be honest.

 

[Soniclife]

On the subject of which...
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
- forgot who that's from, but I'm pretty certain I first came across it in the early days of forums or even on Usenet, so mid-2000s or earlier. If I've learned anything since then, it's that it is as true now as it was 20 years ago. So guess what, I'm outta here.

Yep, also...

 

[VintageFlanker]

ive done it with speaker cables and a friend and abx tests. I got about 7 in a row correct. We stopped as it was stupid.

I still don't believe this anecdote, BTW.

im not in hifi to be absolutely correct

Fine. Because so far you are absolutely wrong.

@Simon 13th, I have a serious question: Are you seeking for the worst like/post ratio ever seen there on ASR? Maybe to then go back to your YT channel to cry about how nasty we are?

You do this site much more credibility if you rated the measured things to subjective listening

I am now wondering if you're living in a parallel universe of some sort. This website does not need your advices nor thoughts to get more credibility. It never has been the case, and never will be.

Because you clearly seem to be lost, I just marked your position on the Dunning Kruger effect curve:

Hope this would help finding your path to get out of here (the curve, not ASR).

Live and learn.

 

[Dvass13]

This whole thread is giving me the feeling...

 

[richard12511]

In saying common sense is such that if you are alive to what biases their might be - wanting it to be better for more money, brand name, price and so on, and look at it objectively.

This assumes these biases are conscious and controllable, which research has shown that many are not. You can't eliminate these biases any more than you can keep your brain from recognizing the face of a friend when your eyes spot them.

 

[MZKM]

My wife's ant had very minor symptoms of cold or something. Goes to the doctor and they immediately check her into hospital.

EDIT:

She had cancer and sadly passed in a matter of short few months.

Whoops, sorry. Should have read it all first.

My grandfather (who is always health conscious, would always sanitize hands after shaking hands with strangers) a few years back went to the hospital, and was diagnosed as being Stage 4 and passed soon after. Cancer really is strange.

 

[Robin L]

i don’t think the human brain is fooled. The point of the article too was you can’t extrapolate one known mechanism carte Blanche to such thinking. Much like say the knee jerk reflex, which is a known pathway.

In saying common sense is such that if you are alive to what biases their might be - wanting it to be better for more money, brand name, price and so on, and look at it objectively.

If there's one thing we know for certain, the human brain is very easily fooled.

 

[richard12511]

im up for a sensible debate. I

It doesn't seem like you are. It seems like you just want to convince us that all of the experts are wrong and you are right just because.

Being open for sensible debate means being open to changing your mind in the face of opposing evidence. You've been presented with a mountain of opposing evidence, but haven't budged one bit.

 

[richard12511]

Why not just demonstrate your claimed prowess, instead of claiming over and over that you shouldn't need to.

This. If it really is easy for you to hear the differences between two well measuring DACs, then why not just demonstrate it? Surely that would be easier than arguing for days to convince everyone that you're different and shouldn't have to.

 

[richard12511]

JJ is one of our luminaries in audio. He is a world-class expert in audio processing and psychoacoustics. He is an AES Fellow among other accolades: https://www.aes.org/awards/?ID=1338

AES FELLOWSHIP AWARD
James Johnston

The AES recognizes and honors those who have made outstanding contributions to the field of audio in engineering, technology, service, and the arts through its Awards Program.

In 1997, James Johnston was presented with the AES Fellowship Award for significant contributions in the area of bit-rate reduction audio coding.

The fact that you don't know him means you have not spent any time researching the science in audio. I suggest taking caution in your tone as a result.

@Simon 13th mentioned earlier that he's interested in doing a public podcast debate and letting the people decide who to believe. Would be fun to see him debate @j_j , though I still somehow think he'd leave the debate unconvinced .

 

[thegeton]

@Simon 13th mentioned earlier that he's interested in doing a public podcast debate and letting the people decide who to believe. Would be fun to see him debate @j_j , though I still somehow think he'd leave the debate unconvinced .

For JJ it might feel like a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent...

 

[Touchstone]

"Common Sense is neither common nor sensical. Much of what passes for common sense is not based on any underlying principle it’s just anecdotes that have worked for the current situation." - Benjamin Franklin

 

[mansr]

Schiller said it more succinctly: "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."

 

[Phorize]

Don’t you all just want to try it and not spend 10k messages debating about measurements. Just get on with your music?

It’s enquiry that happens here rather tha

I.

novody is interested Amir, not Darko, Gutenberg and so on. It’s not how reviews get done. You do this site much more credibility if you rated the measured things to subjective listening and how you can use measured factors as legitimate points to consider in purchase, then compare it against what people buy and why with comparisons they make in subjective tests. Apologies if you do that, but watching some of your videos I don’t think you do. That would be much more interesting to both sides.

You mean ‘

I must say the link in the OP starts off talking about muddy thinking. And then goes on to provide the muddiest, most ill-formed kind of thinking I've seen in some time. I wonder if English is not the native language of the OP or not? Then reading his replies in this thread it is clear either way his thinking is extremely fuzzy all the while convinced he is the sharpest tool in the box. Hard to get any communication going with that situation.

He is English. Looking at what he has written so far, it’s clear that he’s not actually having a 2 way discussion. He’s committed to a sort of ‘God of the Gaps’ argument, Unfortunately as he appears to lack knowledge of the most fundamental aspects of the science of this the gap that his ‘god’ covers accounts for 99% of his universe. It’s a very illustrative case of the difference in the quality of the mind between a person who is well read in science and philosophy and one that isn’t, and I don’t mean that as a slur at all. It presents a real ethical conundrum for the educated. How does one present evidence to a mind that is closed to evidence, or even responds at a visceral level to evidence as an ‘evil’?

My personal view is that like all people he’d benefit from doing a regular mindfulness practice to witness what a holy mess the brain really is. Maybe if he witnessed the complete involuntary chaos of the untrained mind he’d be convinced that there is more to reality than his intuitions.