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Stax vs. HD800?

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Deleted member 4708

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I have the L700 having listened to most in the Stax range. I felt that the L700 just managed to bring a little more bass to the sound. Compared to the planar and dynamic headsets that I tried in the same session, I liked the detail that the Stax offered, the bass lacks the weight of the others, but the bass they deliver has a clear percussive sound. I totally see why others like the sound of the LCD 3 and 4, Focal Eutopia, HD800, Fostex TH900 (my favourite closed-back design), but I preferred the detail and sound balance of the Stax. I suspect that the Stax headsets and energisers are not the last word when it comes to testing!
I also like the Stax above everything else I own and have owned (including Audeze). Here is the flat EQd SR-009 that I own:

Stax-eq.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 4708

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‘I don’t think you zoomed out far enough. Can you change the y scale to 0-200dB?
Let me do that. I like seeing a straight line.
The EQ results in approx a 10db band for the SPL. I don't want to EQ too much.
 

Cortes

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My opinion on questions I've read in the thread.

- I like 007mkII (the ones I know) much better than HD800S. Maybe it's because the type of music I listened to, much jazz, vocals, opera, etc.
I've listenned to them together in Yodabashi. To my ears there are not even comparable. The only thing I like more of HD800S is the soundstage.
- 009's are better than 007's IMO, very clear upgrade IMO.
- The awful thing of Stax are amplifiers. They are super-expensive, and difference accross stax amps are mostly minor (despite huge differences in price). There's a market of non-stax amplifiers which is insane: car price levels, no safety certifications in many cases, no measurements.
 

Moonhead

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My opinion on questions I've read in the thread.

- I like 007mkII (the ones I know) much better than HD800S. Maybe it's because the type of music I listened to, much jazz, vocals, opera, etc.
I've listenned to them together in Yodabashi. To my ears there are not even comparable. The only thing I like more of HD800S is the soundstage.
- 009's are better than 007's IMO, very clear upgrade IMO.
- The awful thing of Stax are amplifiers. They are super-expensive, and difference accross stax amps are mostly minor (despite huge differences in price). There's a market of non-stax amplifiers which is insane: car price levels, no safety certifications in many cases, no measurements.
I agree that 007 is mesmerising with jazz and to me the best can for that particular genre and yes Stax amplifier are a mess.
I had 009 with KGSSHV amplifier and find the soundstage lacking and the treble unnatural and piercing only the bass where more linear than 007. Both mkI and mkII just had this effortless natural sound signature, a tiny bit less clear than 009 and somewhat subdued treble response, IMHO surely!
 

Cortes

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I agree that 007 is mesmerising with jazz and to me the best can for that particular genre and yes Stax amplifier are a mess.
I had 009 with KGSSHV amplifier and find the soundstage lacking and the treble unnatural and piercing only the bass where more linear than 007. Both mkI and mkII just had this effortless natural sound signature, a tiny bit less clear than 009 and somewhat subdued treble response, IMHO surely!

Sometimes I get the upgradits bug, and I want to empty my card purchasing new cans. But really, it's difficult coming from Stax. I don't want to lose that detail. At the end, I guess the thing is to get mayor changes changing of technolgy. I'd love listenning to planars and the berillium focals.
 

Moonhead

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I hear you and I have been there with HE6 and feel that most planars and stats suffer from bright uneven treble response. Would love to listen to focal clear, not sure I would purchase since clipping and bad value next to HD800, which doesn’t have quality control issues like many many others have.
 

DuncanDirkDick

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I own the HD800 and SR-009. Without EQ the HD800 is barely usable IMO. With EQ it's fine, especially for the price on the used market and the weight. I like the SR-009 more because I can basically EQ the hell out of them and make them sound the way I want. Sennies are more limited in EQ possibilities, although I wouldn't say that they don't have bass, they have plenty, really (EQ). I wouldn't recommend the 009 though. If you like the sound go for L700, or on a budget L300. Btw. I really like putting normal pads on the Lambdas. Otherwise I think the SR007 is the better deal overall.
 
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My personal opinion:

The newer Stax (L300/L500/L700 + 009 & 007) are to my ears clearly better than the HD800 in terms of detail and natural sound. The only thing the HD800 does better is soundstage width. I find the HD800 to be brighter than all the Stax.

When people talk about Stax being headphones that only suits certain genres, that is more true for the older models. Current Stax Lambdas and Omegas are good with all genres.

If you ask me, the decision depends on the following:

a) Price: You likely already have an amplifier for dynamic headphones. A used HD800 can be had for what, 800$? If you were to get a driver unit + a SR-L500 for instance, then that would cost you a couple of hundred bucks more, as the SR-L500 is about 800$ just for the headphones

b) How important a wide soundstage is, vs. detail and natural tone. To me, no dynamic can hold a candle to electrostatics. I have been purely listening to electrostatics for 3 years, tried to own a dynamic but it just wasn't doing it for me. The HD800 are fantastic headphones, however a pair of HD600 are almost as good at half the cost - what you miss is basically the soundstage. Meanwhile with the electrostats, I believe you are actually getting something considerably better than a dynamic driver.

I would recommend a pair of SR-L500 or SR-L700, or if price is no issue, the 009. The SR-007 are great however are more dark sounding, with more "body"/bass than most Stax headphones. The L300 are cheap and great sounding, however the plastic yokes break, and they get uncomfortable because of the shallow pads. They can be had for very cheap - a used L300 + 252s driver unit can be found for around 500$. I personally prefer the L300 sound to the HD800.
 

Ata

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I am using the SR-L300 (not limited edition) kit called SRS-3100, the rock bottom entry point to Stax electrostats, with the blutac mod and convolution based EQ and this is an end-game for me both in terms of frequency response and transparency. I am curious though what the THD/SINAD of my setup is. The only thing I do not like is the limited choice of headphone amps, with unknown objective performance -- luckily, even the entry level seems good enough subjectively.

I have had the opportunity to spend many hours in Tokyo going through different headphones, and the only one which I liked were the HD800/HD800s. They do have a noticeable edge in soundstage but lose out in terms of transparency, IMHO. Also 2x the price of Stax SRS-3100 even without the amp.
 
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I am using the SR-L300 (not limited edition) kit called SRS-3100, the rock bottom entry point to Stax electrostats, with the blutac mod and convolution based EQ and this is an end-game for me both in terms of frequency response and transparency. I am curious though what the THD/SINAD of my setup is. The only thing I do not like is the limited choice of headphone amps, with unknown objective performance -- luckily, even the entry level seems good enough subjectively.

I have had the opportunity to spend many hours in Tokyo going through different headphones, and the only one which I liked were the HD800/HD800s. They do have a noticeable edge in soundstage but lose out in terms of transparency, IMHO. Also 2x the price of Stax SRS-3100 even without the amp.

I think getting the L500 or L700 will bridge the soundstage gap. While the HD800 has a larger soundstage still, to me the "soundstage" part is very good going from the L300 to the L500/L700. Some music is better with a small and intimate soundstage, and I remember being extremely impressed with the amount of detail I could perceive from the L300.
 

Ata

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I think getting the L500 or L700 will bridge the soundstage gap. While the HD800 has a larger soundstage still, to me the "soundstage" part is very good going from the L300 to the L500/L700. Some music is better with a small and intimate soundstage, and I remember being extremely impressed with the amount of detail I could perceive from the L300.

Thanks for sharing your opinion! I may upgrade down the road, for now I am quite happy with the SR-L300.

What do you think about the Stax amplifiers? If we put aside that they are way overpriced, is there any objective improvement in upgrading from the SRM-252S? I have not yet explored the vast treasures of this forum, apologies if this has been discusses elsewhere already.
 

Cortes

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Thanks for sharing your opinion! I may upgrade down the road, for now I am quite happy with the SR-L300.

What do you think about the Stax amplifiers? If we put aside that they are way overpriced, is there any objective improvement in upgrading from the SRM-252S? I have not yet explored the vast treasures of this forum, apologies if this has been discusses elsewhere already.

Stax ampliers?
-The Ugly
1. Overpriced
2. The only serious measurment I've seen, it's here by Amir. Models tested performed bad
-The Good
1. Good resale value
2. Alternative to them are niche, and even more expensive, and even with less objetive measurements.

-Bottom line: amps are the worst part of the Stax system. Personally, I'd go only with the official Stax amps, since the rest are impossible to trust to me.
 
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Thanks for sharing your opinion! I may upgrade down the road, for now I am quite happy with the SR-L300.

What do you think about the Stax amplifiers? If we put aside that they are way overpriced, is there any objective improvement in upgrading from the SRM-252S? I have not yet explored the vast treasures of this forum, apologies if this has been discusses elsewhere already.

As Cortes said, there aren't really any alternatives to Stax amps that are tempting.

My subjective opinion is that going from the 252s to the 006t and 727II makes for a better sounding experience, but that could be other factors at play than objective sound differences. When plugging the SR-007 into the 252s and swapping it to the 727II, the difference was so staggering that there really wasn't any doubt in my mind. I did the same with the L300 but can't say I remember hearing any significant improvement. When I sold off the 252s and 727II and got the 006t, I felt very strongly that the L500 sounded better on the 006t, however. But again, this is just my completely subjective perception.
 
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