Review and Measurements of Schiit Lyr Tube Headphone Amplifier

[FrivolsListener]

The power switch is on the rear on the magni 3, so it also isn't as convenient to turn off before unplugging headphones as other amps. But idk how big a deal this all is. Do you necessarily need to be at clipping? What if you were using 600 ohm headphones? You would have a 1000x increase in power. But I don't think people use a lot of power in general with headphones, maybe typically only 1-10mw peak.

That's my opinion. The power switch doesn't bother me -- the amp is considerably smaller than my hand, so reaching the back is as easy as reaching the front -- but actual music is going to behave differently than a continuous tone driven to clipping. And, as I mentioned above, other amp designs go wonky even with decent protections, if abused.

 

[junki]

If you're going to measure tube amps and amps in general, THD and THD+N across frequency is a must-have. Specifically for tube amps.

 

[amirm]

If you're going to measure tube amps and amps in general, THD and THD+N across frequency is a must-have. Specifically for tube amps.

I ran that test:

Do you mean something else?

 

[junki]

Do you mean something else?

I meant this one.

 

[amirm]

Ah, OK. I can run that.

 

[junki]

Ah, OK. I can run that.

Awesome. THD by level/power would also be interesting to see. Ken Rockwell explains how tubes have higher harmonic distortion than SS, but emphasizes particularly the second order harmonic.

His example:

Above, 99% of THD is second order harmonic distortion. Here's the plot for Bottleneck Crack:

 

[amirm]

You know, I remembered running that test. So went back and found it:

As we see, there is nothing better about Lyr. It simply has more noise and moer distortion.

 

[junki]

Thanks for bringing it up. My own take on it is that the Lyr looks pretty standard for a tube amp. Lots of second order harmonic for that tubey euphoric sound. The fact that it has more noise than a solid state is a given. Apples and oranges.

 

[amirm]

Above, 99% of THD is second order harmonic distortion.

That is the classic argument in favor of tubes. The problem is that as you see in Lyr, is that the amount of second harmonic is huge. We are talking -55 dB in my measurements.

And then there is all that extra noise, garbage distortion spikes in a row, etc.

Anyway, I hope to measure more tube amps and find a better performing one than the Schiit Lyr. This one in my opinion does not make a good case for tubes.

 

[junki]

That is the classic argument in favor of tubes. The problem is that as you see in Lyr, is that the amount of second harmonic is huge. We are talking -55 dB in my measurements.

I don't think -55 dB for second order harmonic is a lot for tubes in terms of a diagnostic measurement, especially given the the lack of other order harmonics. We can agree to disagree, but until you've measured more tube amps one can't... objectively ( ) say this is a poor performing tube amp.

 

[Dismayed]

. . . . Anyway, I hope to measure more tube amps and find a better performing one than the Schiit Lyr. This one in my opinion does not make a good case for tubes.

That's setting the bar fairly low, given what we know of Schiit engineering.

 

[junki]

That's setting the bar fairly low, given what we know of Schiit engineering.

You seem to be informed by other forums, as the only evidence in this forum is that Schiit DAC implementations aren't good and that generally R2R measure worse than DS (known to me before even coming here). Comparing R2R to DS measurements is more like apples vs. oranges than anything.

There is a lack of evidence here to suggest that Schiit preamps and amps are poorly implemented, and the measurements widely available in other forums for their amps show that they're fine to good.

So much for objectivism.

 

[amirm]

I don't think -55 dB for second order harmonic is a lot for tubes in terms of a diagnostic measurement, especially given the the lack of other order harmonics. We can agree to disagree, but until you've measured more tube amps one can't... objectively ( ) say this is a poor performing tube amp.

Fair enough. Are folks willing to loan me more units to test???

 

[Cosmik]

There is a lack of evidence here to suggest that Schiit preamps and amps are poorly implemented

Except for this one:

... The Ragnarok's THD+N started off at around 0.05%, which is what I expected, but as time went on the distortion level rose, and within five minutes had reached 34%!

https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-ragnarok-integrated-amplifier-measurements

 

[Blumlein 88]

You seem to be informed by other forums, as the only evidence in this forum is that Schiit DAC implementations aren't good and that generally R2R is worse than DS (known to me before even coming here).

There is a lack of evidence here to suggest that Schiit preamps and amps are poorly implemented, and the measurements widely available in other forums for their amps show that they're fine to good.

So much for objectivism.

I've lost count. What do we have 3 of their DACs/headphone units which are problematic in one way or another . We have the Yiggy which had the infamous glitch initially. And there is the amp Stereophile tested the Ragnarok with the oddball bias scheme that made making measurements impossible as distortions grows over a few minutes. Schiit assures us it won't harm music, but hey Schiit seems assured about a lot of stuff that turns out not to be true. The Vidar amps have had initial problems.

I don't know bad vs good seems to be running 3:1 or 4:1 against. Objectively that is a failing score in grade school math.

 

[Palladium]

I've lost count. What do we have 3 of their DACs/headphone units which are problematic in one way or another . We have the Yiggy which had the infamous glitch initially. And there is the amp Stereophile tested the Ragnarok with the oddball bias scheme that made making measurements impossible as distortions grows over a few minutes. Schiit assures us it won't harm music, but hey Schiit seems assured about a lot of stuff that turns out not to be true. The Vidar amps have had initial problems.

I don't know bad vs good seems to be running 3:1 or 4:1 against. Objectively that is a failing score in grade school math.

They are like that poor kid who finally gets a borderline passing grade in school after many Fs which should be a genuine celebratory moment...Except the same kid is also boasting he is an academic genius right from the very beginning.

 

[Gruss Gott]

They are like that poor kid who finally gets a borderline passing grade in school after many Fs which should be a genuine celebratory moment...Except the same kid is also boasting he is an academic genius right from the very beginning.

If that poor kid went on to become an engineer, founded, built, and ran a successful multi-million dollar company based on their engineering which grew in sales every year, but was being judged by that mediocre kid who is neither an engineer nor founded or runs any company but for some reason doesn't feel like an arse judging those who have. Although I suppose we all know that reason ...

 

[amirm]

If that poor kid went on to become an engineer, founded, built, and ran a successful multi-million dollar company based on their engineering which grew in sales every year, but was being judged by that mediocre kid who is neither an engineer nor founded or runs any company but for some reason doesn't feel like an arse judging those who have. Although I suppose we all know that reason ...

Good return punch. But let's move on and stay on the technical aspects of this thread.

 

[Dismayed]

You seem to be informed by other forums, as the only evidence in this forum is that Schiit DAC implementations aren't good and that generally R2R is worse than DS (known to me before even coming here).

There is a lack of evidence here to suggest that Schiit preamps and amps are poorly implemented, and the measurements widely available in other forums for their amps show that they're fine to good.

So much for objectivism.

Schiit DACs are turds, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt on amps because they are easier to implement? Except we have evidence of flawed engineering in their amps, too. Sorry, but the evidence refutes your contention. And that *is* an objective observation.

You love Schiit? Would you like to buy the Lyr that Amir reviewed? I'm selling it. Best to dump their crap products and move on.

 

[Wombat]

If that poor kid went on to become an engineer, founded, built, and ran a successful multi-million dollar company based on their engineering which grew in sales every year, but was being judged by that mediocre kid who is neither an engineer nor founded or runs any company but for some reason doesn't feel like an arse judging those who have. Although I suppose we all know that reason ...

It seems the talent is in marketing. His talent or someone else's?