Economics - Real-life 'Trickle-down' Fail

[Wombat]

https://apnews.com/f058811fa1fb4bf68a34e3c243a14a6f

I guess for balance we need a 'success' story.

 

[RayDunzl]

I guess for balance we need a 'success' story.

"OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election, lawmakers set out to make it a model of Republican principles, with lower taxes, lighter regulation and a raft of business-friendly reforms."

https://www.ok.gov/tax/Forms_&_Publications/Publications/Annual_Reports/index.html

2009-2010 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 7,774,909,999.71

2016-2017 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 8,789,362,843.80

Looks like they succeeded in increasing revenues by a billion dineros.

5% population increase, 12% revenue increase.

 

[Wombat]

"OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election, lawmakers set out to make it a model of Republican principles, with lower taxes, lighter regulation and a raft of business-friendly reforms."

https://www.ok.gov/tax/Forms_&_Publications/Publications/Annual_Reports/index.html

2009-2010 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 7,774,909,999.71

2016-2017 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 8,789,362,843.80

Looks like they succeeded in increasing revenues by a billion dineros.

5% population increase, 12% revenue increase.

The question is, where did it go?

 

[RayDunzl]

The question is, where did it go?

If you really want to (sort of) know...

https://www.ok.gov/tax/Forms_&_Publications/Publications/Annual_Reports/index.html

 

[RayDunzl]

I had to work in Oklahoma for a while, fly from Houston to Tulsa every week.

It totally sucked.

They have Pickle Bars in all the restaurants.

https://foursquare.com/top-places/tulsa/best-places-pickles

The town was Owasso, a little north of Tulsa, some kind of Indian name for "The End of the Trail".

Which, for WorldCom, which was headquartered there at the time, it was.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2002/aug/09/corporatefraud.worldcom2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Ebbers

 

[Wombat]

If you really want to (sort of) know...

https://www.ok.gov/tax/Forms_&_Publications/Publications/Annual_Reports/index.html

Just a pack of whingers, then? Even the pollies mentioned in the article?

 

[RayDunzl]

Looks like "Raise Taxes as long as you don't raise mine!"

 

[DonH56]

^^^ Of course, always best to blame/suck funds from the other guys, like those greedy rich folk who didn't earn their money. Too bad the whole idea of earning it and working your way up is lost these days. The amount of misinformation, lack of understanding of basic economics and the constitution, and sheer hypocrisy is unbelievable. And of course the AP is pretty left in their reporting. That said, my sister lives outside OKC, and does not have a lot of good things to say about their politicians.

I predict this thread will shortly be in Fight Club.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

"OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election, lawmakers set out to make it a model of Republican principles, with lower taxes, lighter regulation and a raft of business-friendly reforms."

https://www.ok.gov/tax/Forms_&_Publications/Publications/Annual_Reports/index.html

2009-2010 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 7,774,909,999.71

2016-2017 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 8,789,362,843.80

Looks like they succeeded in increasing revenues by a billion dineros.

5% population increase, 12% revenue increase.

Yes, but '09-'10 were Great Recession years, '16-'17 were well into the economic recovery. Best to compare them as a % of State GDP.

 

[RayDunzl]

Oklahoma:

10 states have lower revenues per capita

DC is the highest...

Florida (me) is lower...

North Dakota raking in the cash...

 

[Dismayed]

"OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election, lawmakers set out to make it a model of Republican principles, with lower taxes, lighter regulation and a raft of business-friendly reforms."

https://www.ok.gov/tax/Forms_&_Publications/Publications/Annual_Reports/index.html

2009-2010 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 7,774,909,999.71

2016-2017 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 8,789,362,843.80

Looks like they succeeded in increasing revenues by a billion dineros.

5% population increase, 12% revenue increase.

The problem with cherry-picking data is that it obscures the real story. The Oklahoma State Legislature increased the sales tax and vehicle registration fees. And inflation should be taken into account when looking at data over long time periods. The supply-side story is bullshit. decreasing tax rates has not stimulated economic growth above trend, and it has undermined public services. There is no free lunch.

 

[Cosmik]

There is no free lunch.

Universal Basic Income. Any views?

 

[Thomas savage]

Universal Basic Income. Any views?

Terrible idea.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

The problem with cherry-picking data is that it obscures the real story. The Oklahoma State Legislature increased the sales tax and vehicle registration fees. And inflation should be taken into account when looking at data over long time periods. The supply-side story is bullshit. decreasing tax rates has not stimulated economic growth above trend, and it has undermined public services. There is no free lunch.

Not much inflation occurred in the general economy over that time period, so inflation is not too relevant. But, general economic activity and output, hence tax revenues, increased substantially from deep recession levels nationally to substantial recovery in the time periods cited, having little to do with Oklahoma's tax reductions.

The fascinating case of neighboring Kansas also needs a close look. Full blown supply side, tax reduction economics utterly failed there under Governor Sam Brownback. Even economic recovery did not produce the prophesied boom, and taxes had to be increased by an electoral and legislative revolt. Kansas seriously lagged many other states in the economic recovery, including such anti-supply-side states as liberal California. But, like a zombie, supply side aka "voodoo" economics keeps on being worshipped in spite of repeated failures.

Supply side economists are a marginalized but highly vocal minority, much like climate deniers. Rich guys like the idea a whole lot, simply because the doctrine always disproportionately favors their tax rates and pocketbooks. Hence, the notion is bankrolled by much political money and paid propaganda to keep the voodoo alive. Follow the money.

 

[bobhol]

Have they got all the free loaders off the food stamp and welfare programs. How about closing all the homeless shelters and shipping all the homeless back to where ever they came from.

 

[RayDunzl]

The problem with cherry-picking data is that it obscures the real story.

If I cherry-picked the years they were cherry picked for me in the cherry-picking article:

"When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election..."

There is no free lunch.

The last time I looked, there were 200 billion galaxies (and counting) of Free Lunch waiting to be plundered.

Oops... 2 trillion... and counting...

 

[Thomas savage]

Have they got all the free loaders off the food stamp and welfare programs. How about closing all the homeless shelters and shipping all the homeless back to where ever they came from.

Likely they came from a house that they no longer rent / own , not much good shipping them back there as the new residents won’t take kindly to that lol .

 

[RayDunzl]

liberal California

A randomly picked house sized like mine, can't remember the distant relative's address, not too far away...

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...-121.976223,37.230192,-122.317486_rect/11_zm/

I can only wonder what marvelous services they receive for their 12x tax payment that I don't.

And further wonder what the city/state does with all that cash...

 

[Cosmik]

Terrible idea.

Care to expand on that? I don't see it as a binary terrible idea. It is related to what was predicted in the 1970s: a life of leisure for all who choose it, with the microchips doing the work. If we are to have that (too late for some of us, unfortunately), we need some new ideas and this seems like a possible winner.

 

[Jakob1863]

"OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — When the GOP took full control of Oklahoma government after the 2010 election, lawmakers set out to make it a model of Republican principles, with lower taxes, lighter regulation and a raft of business-friendly reforms."

https://www.ok.gov/tax/Forms_&_Publications/Publications/Annual_Reports/index.html

2009-2010 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 7,774,909,999.71

2016-2017 - Grand Total Collections*..................................... $ 8,789,362,843.80

Looks like they succeeded in increasing revenues by a billion dineros.

5% population increase, 12% revenue increase.

Depends on the year choosen for comparison,in the fiscal year 2008-2009 they had already the same tax income as in 2016-2017, which dropped (probably) due to the financial crisis and the recession.