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Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

izeek

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In the (50s?) Betty Crocker had an issue with selling packet mix cake that Psychologists eventually solved. It became an early example of counter intuitive value systems that people have.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171027-the-magic-cakes-that-come-from-a-packet

In blind tests, powdered egg tasted better, but the buyers claimed that it tasted worse when the item was on the shelf, and the product was not selling.

The truth? The 'experience' with the product was that buyers (mainly women) felt that it was too easy, and 'appeared' to be too little work to their families if they just poured water in a dry mix. It didn't 'show' that they cared.

So Betty Crocker removed the powdered egg. The buyer was now to add their own 'Fresh' egg.

It sold in record numbers.
We need a preference score system for substances.
and dbx
 

izeek

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It's not a deflection: it's the truth.

This is an entertainment hobby. That's all it is.

I really don't care if somebody wants to spend 100x the money on cables that I spend on my cheapish Blue Jeans cables.

I feel no need to convert others.

I don't view objectivism as evangelism.
rilly, doh.
 

izeek

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look, a recommendation is typically for those who *haven’t yet* done something, not, in this case, Washingtonians with a standing order from the local dispensary.

If we are suggesting a *first time* investment in this new sound..tweak, I..er..audiophiles should not be embarrassed to have a child-like sensitivity to the..dr...er....new component.

The legal stuff isn’t the ditchweed of boomer childhood. It doesn’t take much to completely fascinate the user with the incredible wash of details in sound...and not much more to put him to bed for the night.

i say think of it as EQ. One should start with a wee bit.
well described, lol.
 

steve59

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my bike wheelies at 135 mph in top gear... I figured as long as we were measuring up.
 

Focaliz3d

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I totally recognise myself in this but... it was before. Before I admit that I have done whatever. Sometimes I have money, sometimes I’m broken, I have spent amazing amounts in bullshits and finally went back to affordable things. This is not a bad thing at the end cause I don’t have any fantaisies anymore and yes, I can safely admit that my brand new D7X Pro sounds better to my ears than my ex TotalDac (it does, I’m sorry :eek:) I can admit that no, my Plantronic Backbeat Pro 2 isn’t sounding bad and even better than many other pairs of headphones ten times more expensive that I have owned, especially when it is to use in a noisy environment and I can even admit that some of my gaming headphones work pretty well to listen to music. But it took me 20 years to brake all my certitudes. Today I’m watching myself with a kind smile and the only thing I’m sure about is that I’m not sure anymore about anything except that Bach, Vivaldi and Led Zeppelin badly rock !
 

GGroch

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....But it took me 20 years to brake all my certitudes. Today I’m watching myself with a kind smile and the only thing I’m sure about is that I’m not sure anymore about anything except that Bach, Vivaldi and Led Zeppelin badly rock !

Good! But you are swimming against the tide...there is a lot of excess certitude these days. You were so much older then..
 

ahofer

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Somafunk

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Jesus Christ :oops:, bet that amplifier guy is a lot of fun at a party, he needs to smoke more weed.
 

devopsprodude

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Yeah, really bugs the crap out of me when people talk about the sound from cables, amps, DACs, etc. like they're regarding wine. I have seen zero actual evidence to suggest that an amp can improve things like soundstage. Even less evidence that cables can improve audio, they can only degrade it. The day I replaced all my MIT and Monster Cable crap with bluejeanscable.com stuff was one of the happiest of my life.
 

watchnerd

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Yeah, really bugs the crap out of me when people talk about the sound from cables, amps, DACs, etc. like they're regarding wine. I have seen zero actual evidence to suggest that an amp can improve things like soundstage. .

Well....

Re: Soundstage

Psychoacoustically, in the mixing world, it's a known trick that you can manipulate the forward/back impression of a soundstage by adjusting a PEQ (Q 1.0, +/- ~2 dB range) at 1600 Hz.

Supposedly Nelson Pass intentionally colors some of his amp's response curve to manipulate the impression of soundstage.

Now, one might argue that this is an 'effects box' rather than an improvement....and I have no issue with that.

But a non-flat amp can manipulate the psychoacoustic impression of a soundstage.

Whether that's an improvement or not is a subjective matter.
 

devopsprodude

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Coloration of the sound at the hardware level in order to trick the brain into thinking soundstage has improved when it actually hasn't, is definitely not my bag. I don't do tubes, or vinyl, or any other hardware for that stuff. But that's just me. Vs software based room correction or EQ, which is a choice we get to make as users. Although I would argue with anyone who says that room correction doesn't improve the sound of home theater audio.
 

watchnerd

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Coloration of the sound at the hardware level in order to trick the brain into thinking soundstage has improved when it actually hasn't

Soundstage is heavily a brain phenomenon.

Other than channel separation, things like 'imaging' and 'depth' don't really have an easy empirical definition.

So if something tricks the brain into thinking the soundstage improved, how does one argue it hasn't, if there isn't an empirical control?
 

devopsprodude

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Well, what's the goal of audio? I think it's to as faithfully as possible reproduce what was intended by the artist when recorded. So anything done at the hardware level that changes that and can't be controlled by the listener is bad, IMO. Equipment should be transparent, in my opinion.

A well recorded song doesn't need the soundstage improved by electronics via coloration/distortion. Just like if I went to an art gallery and someone had tinted a Rothko to make it seem warmer, I would be pissed, whereas once you get a reproduction home, do whatever you want to it, with the understanding that the result is a derivative of the original and thus not the original.
 

Robin L

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Well, what's the goal of audio? I think it's to as faithfully as possible reproduce what was intended by the artist when recorded. So anything done at the hardware level that changes that and can't be controlled by the listener is bad, IMO. Equipment should be transparent, in my opinion.

A well recorded song doesn't need the soundstage improved by electronics via coloration/distortion. Just like if I went to an art gallery and someone had tinted a Rothko to make it seem warmer, I would be pissed, whereas once you get a reproduction home, do whatever you want to it, with the understanding that the result is a derivative of the original and thus not the original.
The goal of "audio", of the "recording industry, is to move as many units as possible. The notion that the intent is "to as faithfully as possible reproduce what was intended by the artist when recorded", the concept of "the Absolute Sound", is bogus, a marketing tool. The people making the music are [usually] listening to a variety of different monitors when working on a final mix, trying to find out what works on the sort of gear that most people will hear it on. A "well recorded song" sold a lot of copies. This isn't an art gallery, it's a supermarket, where the lighting is designed to make the products and produce look as appetizing as possible, even if it means lighting the store with high-UV bulbs to make the colors "pop". The kinds of recordings designed to demonstrate "The Absolute Sound" are the kinds of recordings destined for the cut-out bins, or the internet equivalent of the same. To give an obvious example, along with all sorts of compression and other effects not found in nature, Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" has the treble jacked up to at least "11". Nothing will "realistically" reproduce Mick Fleetwood's drum kit, it's a pure studio artifact. Listen to the Quincy Jones productions of Michael Jackson, a million miles away from reality and selling like hotcakes. Just about any monster hit is the audio equivalent of junk food, highly processed and available everywhere.

The goal of an audio system is to reproduce music in a way that pleases the customer, nothing more or less.
 
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