• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

From a quality point of view, does it make sense to DIY loudspeakers?

3125b

Major Contributor
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
1,352
Likes
2,204
Location
Germany
Depends, I guess.
Taking the Lego approach i.e. building kits and/or using ready made modules and plans it's easy enough to achieve what the manufacturers specify, be it good or bad (just like the approaches from major manufacturers).
However designing and making everything by yourself is gonna require at lot of theoretical knowledge, practical experience, expensive measuring equipment - and time. Probably not achievable for a hobbyist working an unrelated job.
Plus when it comes to the latest gadgets in the pro market with DSP and other software based functionality and integration, that would require a whole additional set of skills on top of all you'd already have to know.
The industy leading companies don't hire flocks of engineers just for fun.
 

ta240

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
1,357
Likes
2,653
Building and designing speakers is a hobby, like collecting stamps or flyfishing - nothing to do with "sense" or economics!
.....

Well said. It often gets pitched as a way to build giant killer speakers on the cheap and while there are some excellent designs out there, unless you have piles of wood, crossover parts, connectors and all the tools it can be pretty expensive to dive into as a starter hobby. But if you enjoy it then have at it.

....Also, per usual, people neglect the worth of their time invested. Time is not to be had for free.

That is why it only works if you enjoy the build. "time invested" only applies to things that are work rather than fun; otherwise we'd have to be looking at time invested in online forums ;)

If your goal is to simply save money, I wouldn't bother with DIY. Buy used speakers instead. If your goal is to have a fun project and you have the tools and skills, then guys like http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ can help. If your interest and knowledge are greater than most enthusiasts, you can have at it (your own design).
....

yep.

....In summary, given all this, my best answer would be DIY quality will depend on your skill set and the availability of DiY designs/kits for the type of speaker that you are seeking. :)

Skill often gets overlooked as a key ingredient
 

Aerith Gainsborough

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
853
Likes
1,280
That is why it only works if you enjoy the build.
Precisely my point.

If it's a hobby and you're having fun: awesome. Go for it.
If you are looking for a quick fix in order to save money -> forget it.

I mean lets be real here: Can I, as an inexperienced person both in terms of speaker design as well as ... well.. working with my hands create a speaker that rivals the quality of sound and beauty in finish of a Focal Aria 906 at a price point of 230€ per speaker?

Fat chance. Buying the necessary tools alone would put me past the cost of the speakers.
 

Mnyb

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
2,640
Likes
3,605
Location
Sweden, Västerås
To be realy good takes skills that the average speaker builder don't have ime.

Mfg can optimize stuff in way most diy people simply cant do , order drivers to spec in large quantities they may get xover components for less than 1/10 of the price you pay the whole design can be whatever they choose . Diy you pick ready made drivers and makes square boxes in mdf , you seldom cast aluminium or composite etc.

However a big mfg goals may not always be ultimate sound quality the speaker should sell , so sq that impress for 5 minutes in the store but not the long run . And nice design is important for them.

However.
The diy crowd can do stuff that are not commercially viable:

large speakers that don't fight physics , for example very large subwoofers with multiple drivers for very little money while for example KEF pour millions into develop an extremely small sub, just to able to sell this small aesthetically friendly solution.

Or large multi way speaker with a large and wide front baffle instead of the ubiquitous tiny narrow tower format.

Or very large horns ?

Complex active multiway solutions with digital xovers ?
 

Helicopter

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
2,693
Likes
3,941
Location
Michigan
To be realy good takes skills that the average speaker builder don't have ime.

Mfg can optimize stuff in way most diy people simply cant do , order drivers to spec in large quantities they may get xover components for less than 1/10 of the price you pay the whole design can be whatever they choose . Diy you pick ready made drivers and makes square boxes in mdf , you seldom cast aluminium or composite etc.

However a big mfg goals may not always be ultimate sound quality the speaker should sell , so sq that impress for 5 minutes in the store but not the long run . And nice design is important for them.

However.
The diy crowd can do stuff that are not commercially viable:

large speakers that don't fight physics , for example very large subwoofers with multiple drivers for very little money while for example KEF pour millions into develop an extremely small sub, just to able to sell this small aesthetically friendly solution.

Or large multi way speaker with a large and wide front baffle instead of the ubiquitous tiny narrow tower format.

Or very large horns ?

Complex active multiway solutions with digital xovers ?
Exactly. If you want big paper cones and giant horns, or whizzers, etx, DIY is the way to go. If you want great reproduction, there are some optiins that are workable, but the huge and obvious advantage is no longer there.
 

ta240

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
1,357
Likes
2,653
Precisely my point.

If it's a hobby and you're having fun: awesome. Go for it.
If you are looking for a quick fix in order to save money -> forget it.

I mean lets be real here: Can I, as an inexperienced person both in terms of speaker design as well as ... well.. working with my hands create a speaker that rivals the quality of sound and beauty in finish of a Focal Aria 906 at a price point of 230€ per speaker?

Fat chance. Buying the necessary tools alone would put me past the cost of the speakers.

I don't even want to think about what I spent just on stains trying to find the perfect color for my last build :)

I also have trouble completely buying into the whole "but the big companies spend a large portion of their budget on marketing" line; because they also buy their drivers in large quantities, can have the components built to their specs rather than adjusting the built to accommodate the driver and can have them assembled in countries where the labor is inexpensive. And sell in large quantities, which allows for lower markup.

I'm sure there are DIY builds that perform way better than their price would say they should and at the same time big company speakers that perform much worse than they should. However, just like in all things, blanket statements rarely work and a lot of people probably get enticed into building by hearing how much better quality they can get for a "fraction of the cost".

I think that may be part of the reason that DIY stuff rarely gets compared to similar priced retail products. Usually it is "this $500 item, while not nearly as good as this $5000 item, is still quite amazing".

And finally, while the feeling of pride in "I built that" is great... if you are a perfectionist then you may also be left with a feeling of "It would be great if it didn't have that goof-up right there in the build" ;) It would be nice to be able to build at a quality level where I could sell my creations rather than tearing them apart and selling the used drivers.

All that being said, I will probably build another set of speaker someday simply because I enjoy the process. If the BMR roadshow ever comes west it would be great to hear what they can sound like.
 
Last edited:

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,579
Likes
38,278
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
I built lots of speakers when I was young. There's no pride in speakers that look DIY and they all do, regardless of how "professional" you might think you are.

They have zero resale value on the secondary market, so for all your effort, you'd want to keep them a long time.
 

Helicopter

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
2,693
Likes
3,941
Location
Michigan
...There's no pride in speakers that look DIY and they all do, regardless of how "professional" you might think you are...

This is also a reason that unconventional and huge designs have a greater relative advantage here. Then you can embrace your mad scientist vibe.
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,822
Likes
4,514
I played with building speakers when I was young. I think it’s fun but in practice it means a lot of expensive parts in unfinished projects...

However, one area where I think “DIY” (perhaps “custom tailored” is a better term) can pay benefits is subwoofers. You can build them into furniture or disguise them to fit your room exactly. At that point you’re doing custom furniture, so cost will be higher than buying commercial subwoofers. You also need to find a custom furniture maker who understands speaker-ese, which limits the pool. However, you can have them in the room without anyone knowing they are there. If you have a central amp you can also run speaker level structured cabling instead of line level. There are very few commercial passive or two-piece subs out there.
 

digitalfrost

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Messages
1,521
Likes
3,086
Location
Palatinate, Germany
I started building speakers in 2005. I think DIY is generally worth it, but there is some fine print to it. From my personal opinion, DIY speakers will provide you with an acoustic performance that is 2x or 3x the price compared to the retail market. That said, the cost of tools and for finish need to be considered.

When I started out, there were no online carpenters who would send CNC machined baffles for cheap. You needed a router, and most importantly carbide/hard steel router bits to cut plywood or MDF consistently. Good bits often cost as much as the router itself and the cost can easily amount to a sum that would afford multiple of the cheaper DIY speakers kits available. So unless you're gonna build a lot of them, and/or you got the tools anyway, acquiring them is not worth it for a single speaker pair. At the lower end of the price spectrum, you're not gonna compete with retail products. I cannot DIY a desktop system with subwoofer for 150$.

Nowadays, despite having the tools I no longer bother cutting things myself, there are so many good online options to get things cut via CNC that I don't wanna bother with the noise and the dirt anymore. I simply design all protruding edges 1mm over spec and then use a flush trim bit, or simply order all boards prepared with lamellos and then it's just like lego.

The finishing is a topic where a lot of the cost can end up, or not. My inital 2x, 3x retail price statement was based on raw speakers. If you want a finish that is as good as retail/highend speakers, it will be either impossible with DIY, or cost a lot of money. I've tried painting things myself, and I'm not gonna do that anymore. The time invested and the stress is not worth it, you will not get a result that is on par with retail/professional products. Just look at the KEF LS50 for example. Good luck replicating that yourself in your garage.
Another topic is veneering. Smaller speakers you can veneer yourself, but when the speakers become bigger than the stem of the tree, things get interesting.

Where DIY is really worth it IMHO is subwoofers. They are often hidden/not as visible, and the retail prices charged are really high. All my subwoofers I ever had were DIYed. Since the speaker only operates around its resonance frequency you can use free of charge simulation tools and end up with something that makes sense. Since the room takes over below Schröder anyway, you don't need fancy measurement equipment but simply adjust to taste.

Long story short, if you expect retail look and finish, then it's not worth it unless you're building a lot of them. Good kits might make this viable, but in general just for a single pair, I wouldn't bother. That said, it's a nice hobby. Whatever you build, music is gonna come out of it, and it makes you happy. For kids this can be a lot of fun, and there's a ton of really cheap options available.

e: Another thing to mention. There's a ton of exotic speakers that are not represented in the retail market, like horns or transmission lines. I started out DIYing with fullrange speakers and they're a ton of fun but almost non existent outside DIY.
 
Last edited:

Helicopter

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
2,693
Likes
3,941
Location
Michigan
Foe aesthetics, I say, be artistic, and embrace the fact they are handmade and unique. If you are doing open baffle, use a cool piece of wood like live edge or barnwood... show off your plywood edge grain, and so on.
 

Cider

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
53
Likes
259
I built lots of speakers when I was young. There's no pride in speakers that look DIY and they all do, regardless of how "professional" you might think you are.

They have zero resale value on the secondary market, so for all your effort, you'd want to keep them a long time.

I've seen some pretty stunning DIY speakers, and I am more than content with my imperfect projects. Not everybody is interested in building things for entertainment though, and as many have pointed out, it's a terrible way to "save" money.

Your second point is surely a cold, hard truth. I've got some DIY speakers that I can't even sell for half the cost of the parts kit, let alone cabinet expenses. Oh well, I guess they'll be a nice pair of garage speakers :)
 

muad

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
415
Likes
471
I built lots of speakers when I was young. There's no pride in speakers that look DIY and they all do, regardless of how "professional" you might think you are.

They have zero resale value on the secondary market, so for all your effort, you'd want to keep them a long time.
I dunno, I think mine look pretty snazzy. Also the best sounding speaker I've come across. I like them more than the f206, bmr, kef r3 and pretty much everything else I've owned. But yeah, the time involved. I would never do it again. For commercial quality you need high end tools and time. So much time.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20210220_191731976_compress52.jpg
    PXL_20210220_191731976_compress52.jpg
    444.1 KB · Views: 217
Last edited:

Wombat

Master Contributor
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
6,722
Likes
6,459
Location
Australia
I think my big DIY speakers would be worth more if the drivers were parted-out.

Cabinet and labor, zilch.
Don't%20tell%20anyone.gif


They give me personal satisfaction, though. :)
 

zanlation

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
25
I started down the DIY audio path to fill my passion for "how does this work?". I was wandering through a local timber hobby supplier and I came on a gorgeous plank of spotted gum heartwood. I thought that this plank would make an amazing baffle for a speaker pair. I decided on the Alpair 7 pencil made of plywood. I am listening to it now while watching TV. The speakers are a piece of art and they sound better than any of my bought speakers.

What a learning curve to build your own speakers! I spent a fortune on tools, including a router, sander(s), and jigsaw. I estimate spending 60 hours on sanding, stuffing up the timber veneer, resanding, bubbles in the veneer, sanding it back to timber, veneering and finally fine sanding the veneer to 1200 grit. The advantage with the full range Alpair 7 is the lack of crossovers.

I would never ever sell my Alpairs 7. They are family.

My DIY entry into power amps is another and more complex story. My Alpairs 7s are being powered by a TPA3255 DIY amp with my own zanlation audio branding. My wife has no idea how much they cost to build. I have learnt so much over the years with DIY jobs and its really never about saving money. Mistakes cost money and I have made many of those over the years.
 

H-713

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
379
Likes
666
Don't do it if you don't want to do it. Diyaudio is it's own hobby. Nelson Pass has often stated that the happiest audiophile is the one who builds his/her own equipment, and I think there's a lot of truth to that. It's rewarding, and there's always that lingering "well what if I tried X" feeling that makes you want to get up and try something new.

Resale value is all over the map and depends heavily on the quality of construction. I disagree on the statement that "they all look DIY". Some certainly do, but that is not always the case. Generally they'll look about as professional as you make them. A speaker cabinet is not a hard project by woodworking standards. Those who don't have as much background in cabinetry might disagree, but I know I could make a speaker cabinet to rival high-end commercial offerings in appearance.

There are areas where we can do better than the likes of Harman. We don't demand the profit margins that Harman does, nor do we need to make a product that will sell. Something tells me that a $700 Volt or ATC dome midrange would not find its way into a consumer loudspeaker from Harman.

Most of the really interesting speakers that aren't a DIY project will cost many thousands of dollars. With a $2,500 budget, commercial offerings are often rather boring within any one ecosystem. You could buy a pair of Revel M106s if that's your thing. You could buy a pair of Elac bookshelf speakers with JET tweeters if that's your thing. You could buy a pair of Quested H108s if that's your thing. You could buy some Genelec active monitors for that price if that's your thing. You could buy a pair of B&Ws. All of the speakers I've mentioned are very different yet amazing speakers in their own right.

With a $2,500 budget you could build some amazing tower speakers using Scanspeak drivers. The Zaph ZRT comes to mind. You could build some amazing bookshelf speakers for a whole lot less. You could also probably build something similar to the Quested H108 for around $1000, and you wouldn't have to settle for Quested's very "utilitarian" cabinet finish that seems to make people of the opposite gender (or the same gender- I don't judge) say "You aren't putting THAT in my living room!"

Someone mentioned that "Your time isn't free". If you're someone who considers your time to be part of the cost of building speakers, then you're also probably someone who should just go buy the aforementioned M106 / H108 / BS263 / B&W / Genelec / whatever makes you happy.
 

Helicopter

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
2,693
Likes
3,941
Location
Michigan
I mean, regular speakers aren't exactly an 'investment.' Personally I won't pay more than half of MSRP, and if they show any wear and tear, a quarter of MSRP is about what I expect to pay.
 

Mnyb

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
2,640
Likes
3,605
Location
Sweden, Västerås
I also have to say the active diy people on this forum seems to belong to the 1% that can do stuff at commercial quality level.
It makes it look deceptively easy .
Then we have kit building ? thats also a kind of diy but then i'm not at all sure how good kits you can get ?

I think speakr diy can give you a healty serving of dunning kruger syndrom. It is a speaker and it makes sound :)
 

muad

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
415
Likes
471
One of nice things is if you pick a high end kit that is well designed and has some nice high end drivers, you can always just build the base speaker from a knock down, or cheap CNC source. Then drop it off at an automotive finisher. You can end up with a speaker that normally costs 10+k but spend less than half that and with minimal need for tools.

Really, it can be an opportunity to get a high end speaker, with exotic drivers and a solid cabinet, but at a price that's far more reasonable.
 

egellings

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
4,004
Likes
3,244
I think the pride of being able to say "Made it myself!" is as a good a motivator as any for a DYI attempt. Even a lousy sounding DYI speaker plays, to some extent. It's not like a S.S. amplifier attempt, where if you don't get it right, poof! a puff of smoke and no sound, however lousy.
 
Top Bottom