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Do USB Audio Cables Make A Difference?

the_hamster 2

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Now, going from the ATV4K to Audirvana, that was the true upgrade.
Couldn’t agree more, as Audirvana uses far less PC resources than just the native streaming app (Qobuz), and allows the user better control over playback. Swapped out several flavours of USB cable, with little or no obvious qualitative differences observed by ear. Upgraded a 10yr-old HP laptop with a SSD, doubled the memory, and installed the fastest CPU that the mobo/BIOS could handle...much more cost-effective than purchasing a Node 2i, for example.
 

Sal1950

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Now, going from the ATV4K to Audirvana, that was the true upgrade.
Couldn’t agree more, as Audirvana uses far less PC resources than just the native streaming app (Qobuz), and allows the user better control over playback. Swapped out several flavours of USB cable, with little or no obvious qualitative differences observed by ear. Upgraded a 10yr-old HP laptop with a SSD, doubled the memory, and installed the fastest CPU that the mobo/BIOS could handle...much more cost-effective than purchasing a Node 2i, for example.
A whole new life for your computer at a fraction of the cost. Great
 

thegeton

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If you had played a blues track then your wife would have come back, your dog would have come back to life, and you'd have got out of prison!

Actually, that only happens if you play country music...
 

thegeton

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AnnieBody

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Me Again!
As detailed before I replaced my bog standard eBay cable with a named one from eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264314470502
Note: Apart from being a customer, I have no association with eBay nor the vendor.
It cost me £6, so worth a pop, I thought.
The bass is tighter and the treble reported before has even more clarity. I would use this over the Cinnamon anytime.
ACDCs 'Given the dog a bone' has much more sparation of the instruments. You can hear more of the individual guitars playing against each other.

As there has been some feedback regarding control, I thought you might like to know how I do things...
I do a blind test and get my wife to swap the cables without me knowing which one she has connected, even using the same cable more than once.
I then compare A with B and detail which one I prefer. Then B with C etc. Once I have a preferred list after the run, she then goes back and starts again with the preferences for more comparison tests. She finishes up with (by my judgement) the worst one and best one compared, just to check if that is the one I want to purchase after all. This method has provided some interesting results as I have not always favoured the most expensive one! I have also not always purchased a cable at all; when the difference is too marginal to be worth the cost!
My preferences note sound-stage; bass depth, musicality and slam; treble quality; clarity; musicality; instrument separation; and how long I would like to listen.

If I were to explain to someone what an orange tasted like, it would be impossible task. If, however, I gave them an orange to taste they would be able to recognize that taste. It would not be until they had tasted many oranges before they could recognize which one tasted better to them.
The same is true for tea, whisky, coffee etc. You don't have to be able to analyze the flavour compunds in great detail to know which one you prefer, but to do so requires a sample to compare and many practice sessions. For instance, I don't particularly like aged wines. They are more expensive, but I prefer the fruityness that a younger wine presents. I can note the particular characters, but your choice and mine may well be different.
When I first got my my wife to assist sampling analog cables, she stated "they all sound the same to her", but when I pointed out one cable's ability to make the cymbal ring instead of splash and the bass drum to thump instead of boom, she could then recognize the difference as he had learnt.

I have been to many HiFi shows over the years and have heard bad sounding expensive equipment as well as good sounding cheaper equipment. But, that is to my ears and expectations. Just because we all have the same sound reaching our ears does not mean we all process that sound the same way. Who is to say whether or not we all process the incoming data the same way in our individual brains? I also recognize that throughout all of those shows I have never witnessed a filter manufacturer nor cable manufacturer demonstrate a with/without direct comparison. I have to ask why this is! Just about everyone uses top end cables at shows, so there must be a general consensus in the industry regarding the sound rather than just price.

The equipment itself and the room it is played in make a vast difference. I have increased my budget over the years and have found cables to have a different sound. I never considered this when starting on my HiFi journey as the systems didn't have the ability to resolve things as well. I know it might come over as snobbish, which is definitely not my intention, but cheaper systems don't respond as well to the subtleties of cables as well as more expensive ones. If you cannot hear a difference, your money might be better spent on upgrading the equipment rather than paying a large percentage cost on a cable that may make only a minor change. Sound panel demonstration have proved that by changing the room spectrum you can improved or worsen the sound.

Finally, despite what is claimed regarding digital cables, it is a fact that connecting them to equipment will induce noise into that system. This is due to electromagnetism and a whole branch of legally required EMC regulations to ensure the effects are minimal and do not prove dangerous! If you connect an aerial to a usb port (please don't!) whether or not the DAC is decoding and correcting the data stream content, there will be induced noise present on the device and the associated power feeding it, which in turn will affect every other component of that equipment. There is no real world scenario where the noise on the aerial will not affect the equipment. This is fact, not conjecture. Now with cables having twisted pairs and screening these effects can be minimised, but they will still exist. Different conductors, twisting patterns, insulation and screening will affect the noise spectrum but will never fully eliminate it. I believe this is the reason why digital cables sound different. Not because of the data being decoded and corrected but of the noise that is being presented. Whether the noise spectrum induced by a £6 ebay cable is better than a £800 hand made one will depend upon your equipment, location, etc.
 

Martini

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Transformers are for beginners. You're not even trying to be an audiophile if you don't have a private substation. Anyone truly serious about the hobby obviously has his own power plant.
You really gotta have some sort of power station, even if sometimes it's not so clean. This does the trick for me -

 
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solderdude

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Me Again!
As detailed before I replaced my bog standard .....

uh huh.

'The bass is tighter and the treble has even more clarity'
hmm.. where have I read that line before ...
 

SIY

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Me Again!
As detailed before I replaced my bog standard eBay cable with a named one from eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264314470502
Note: Apart from being a customer, I have no association with eBay nor the vendor.
It cost me £6, so worth a pop, I thought.
The bass is tighter and the treble reported before has even more clarity. I would use this over the Cinnamon anytime.
ACDCs 'Given the dog a bone' has much more sparation of the instruments. You can hear more of the individual guitars playing against each other.

As there has been some feedback regarding control, I thought you might like to know how I do things...
I do a blind test and get my wife to swap the cables without me knowing which one she has connected, even using the same cable more than once.
I then compare A with B and detail which one I prefer. Then B with C etc. Once I have a preferred list after the run, she then goes back and starts again with the preferences for more comparison tests. She finishes up with (by my judgement) the worst one and best one compared, just to check if that is the one I want to purchase after all. This method has provided some interesting results as I have not always favoured the most expensive one! I have also not always purchased a cable at all; when the difference is too marginal to be worth the cost!
My preferences note sound-stage; bass depth, musicality and slam; treble quality; clarity; musicality; instrument separation; and how long I would like to listen.

If I were to explain to someone what an orange tasted like, it would be impossible task. If, however, I gave them an orange to taste they would be able to recognize that taste. It would not be until they had tasted many oranges before they could recognize which one tasted better to them.
The same is true for tea, whisky, coffee etc. You don't have to be able to analyze the flavour compunds in great detail to know which one you prefer, but to do so requires a sample to compare and many practice sessions. For instance, I don't particularly like aged wines. They are more expensive, but I prefer the fruityness that a younger wine presents. I can note the particular characters, but your choice and mine may well be different.
When I first got my my wife to assist sampling analog cables, she stated "they all sound the same to her", but when I pointed out one cable's ability to make the cymbal ring instead of splash and the bass drum to thump instead of boom, she could then recognize the difference as he had learnt.

I have been to many HiFi shows over the years and have heard bad sounding expensive equipment as well as good sounding cheaper equipment. But, that is to my ears and expectations. Just because we all have the same sound reaching our ears does not mean we all process that sound the same way. Who is to say whether or not we all process the incoming data the same way in our individual brains? I also recognize that throughout all of those shows I have never witnessed a filter manufacturer nor cable manufacturer demonstrate a with/without direct comparison. I have to ask why this is! Just about everyone uses top end cables at shows, so there must be a general consensus in the industry regarding the sound rather than just price.

The equipment itself and the room it is played in make a vast difference. I have increased my budget over the years and have found cables to have a different sound. I never considered this when starting on my HiFi journey as the systems didn't have the ability to resolve things as well. I know it might come over as snobbish, which is definitely not my intention, but cheaper systems don't respond as well to the subtleties of cables as well as more expensive ones. If you cannot hear a difference, your money might be better spent on upgrading the equipment rather than paying a large percentage cost on a cable that may make only a minor change. Sound panel demonstration have proved that by changing the room spectrum you can improved or worsen the sound.

Finally, despite what is claimed regarding digital cables, it is a fact that connecting them to equipment will induce noise into that system. This is due to electromagnetism and a whole branch of legally required EMC regulations to ensure the effects are minimal and do not prove dangerous! If you connect an aerial to a usb port (please don't!) whether or not the DAC is decoding and correcting the data stream content, there will be induced noise present on the device and the associated power feeding it, which in turn will affect every other component of that equipment. There is no real world scenario where the noise on the aerial will not affect the equipment. This is fact, not conjecture. Now with cables having twisted pairs and screening these effects can be minimised, but they will still exist. Different conductors, twisting patterns, insulation and screening will affect the noise spectrum but will never fully eliminate it. I believe this is the reason why digital cables sound different. Not because of the data being decoded and corrected but of the noise that is being presented. Whether the noise spectrum induced by a £6 ebay cable is better than a £800 hand made one will depend upon your equipment, location, etc.
So many words, so little validity...
 

highpurityusbcable

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Me Again!
As detailed before I replaced my bog standard eBay cable with a named one from eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264314470502
Note: Apart from being a customer, I have no association with eBay nor the vendor.
It cost me £6, so worth a pop, I thought.
The bass is tighter and the treble reported before has even more clarity. I would use this over the Cinnamon anytime.
ACDCs 'Given the dog a bone' has much more sparation of the instruments. You can hear more of the individual guitars playing against each other.

As there has been some feedback regarding control, I thought you might like to know how I do things...
I do a blind test and get my wife to swap the cables without me knowing which one she has connected, even using the same cable more than once.
I then compare A with B and detail which one I prefer. Then B with C etc. Once I have a preferred list after the run, she then goes back and starts again with the preferences for more comparison tests. She finishes up with (by my judgement) the worst one and best one compared, just to check if that is the one I want to purchase after all. This method has provided some interesting results as I have not always favoured the most expensive one! I have also not always purchased a cable at all; when the difference is too marginal to be worth the cost!
My preferences note sound-stage; bass depth, musicality and slam; treble quality; clarity; musicality; instrument separation; and how long I would like to listen.

If I were to explain to someone what an orange tasted like, it would be impossible task. If, however, I gave them an orange to taste they would be able to recognize that taste. It would not be until they had tasted many oranges before they could recognize which one tasted better to them.
The same is true for tea, whisky, coffee etc. You don't have to be able to analyze the flavour compunds in great detail to know which one you prefer, but to do so requires a sample to compare and many practice sessions. For instance, I don't particularly like aged wines. They are more expensive, but I prefer the fruityness that a younger wine presents. I can note the particular characters, but your choice and mine may well be different.
When I first got my my wife to assist sampling analog cables, she stated "they all sound the same to her", but when I pointed out one cable's ability to make the cymbal ring instead of splash and the bass drum to thump instead of boom, she could then recognize the difference as he had learnt.

I have been to many HiFi shows over the years and have heard bad sounding expensive equipment as well as good sounding cheaper equipment. But, that is to my ears and expectations. Just because we all have the same sound reaching our ears does not mean we all process that sound the same way. Who is to say whether or not we all process the incoming data the same way in our individual brains? I also recognize that throughout all of those shows I have never witnessed a filter manufacturer nor cable manufacturer demonstrate a with/without direct comparison. I have to ask why this is! Just about everyone uses top end cables at shows, so there must be a general consensus in the industry regarding the sound rather than just price.

The equipment itself and the room it is played in make a vast difference. I have increased my budget over the years and have found cables to have a different sound. I never considered this when starting on my HiFi journey as the systems didn't have the ability to resolve things as well. I know it might come over as snobbish, which is definitely not my intention, but cheaper systems don't respond as well to the subtleties of cables as well as more expensive ones. If you cannot hear a difference, your money might be better spent on upgrading the equipment rather than paying a large percentage cost on a cable that may make only a minor change. Sound panel demonstration have proved that by changing the room spectrum you can improved or worsen the sound.

Finally, despite what is claimed regarding digital cables, it is a fact that connecting them to equipment will induce noise into that system. This is due to electromagnetism and a whole branch of legally required EMC regulations to ensure the effects are minimal and do not prove dangerous! If you connect an aerial to a usb port (please don't!) whether or not the DAC is decoding and correcting the data stream content, there will be induced noise present on the device and the associated power feeding it, which in turn will affect every other component of that equipment. There is no real world scenario where the noise on the aerial will not affect the equipment. This is fact, not conjecture. Now with cables having twisted pairs and screening these effects can be minimised, but they will still exist. Different conductors, twisting patterns, insulation and screening will affect the noise spectrum but will never fully eliminate it. I believe this is the reason why digital cables sound different. Not because of the data being decoded and corrected but of the noise that is being presented. Whether the noise spectrum induced by a £6 ebay cable is better than a £800 hand made one will depend upon your equipment, location, etc.
Even teenage girls who write homosexual fan fiction are self aware.
 

andivax

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It's DIGITAL connection.
If you lost or distort data using "cheap" cable you will just heard complete silence (audio gaps meaning lost of the signal) or something like clicks.
So, no affect to sound at all. At least at audible levels for human (sorry whales, dolphins and bats).
 

Katji

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When I first got my my wife to assist sampling analog cables, she stated "they all sound the same to her", but when I pointed out one cable's ability to make the cymbal ring instead of splash and the bass drum to thump instead of boom, she could then recognize the difference as he had learnt.
I think this is explained by Psychology. (Or the psychology aspect of the human hearing.)

I also recognize that throughout all of those shows I have never witnessed a filter manufacturer nor cable manufacturer demonstrate a with/without direct comparison. I have to ask why this is! Just about everyone uses top end cables at shows, so there must be a general consensus in the industry regarding the sound rather than just price.
(Are you serious?) Because they believe the non-science. And they have a vested interest - as in their business is to sell audiophile/hi-fi. And it looks better. (Supposedly.)

The equipment itself and the room it is played in make a vast difference. I have increased my budget over the years and have found cables to have a different sound. I never considered this when starting on my HiFi journey as the systems didn't have the ability to resolve things as well. I know it might come over as snobbish, which is definitely not my intention, but cheaper systems don't respond as well to the subtleties of cables as well as more expensive ones.
Why not? / What is it about more expensive [relative to?] systems that makes them respond "better"[?] to the "subtleties of cables"?

What is the cause of "subtleties of cables"? (I mean in terms of physics - electrical. Something about the conductor material? Or the insulation? Noise shielding? Does any of that affect the behaviour of electrons? (If so, how do differences in electron behaviour there affect audio signal?)

If you cannot hear a difference, your money might be better spent on upgrading the equipment rather than paying a large percentage cost on a cable that may make only a minor change. Sound panel demonstration have proved that by changing the room spectrum you can improved or worsen the sound.
Yes of course but how is acoustic treatment related to cables? Better acoustics making it more likely that listeners can perceive cable differences?

Please advise.
(And in the context of USB cables specifically, as per the thread subject.)
 

Julf

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It's DIGITAL connection.
If you lost or distort data using "cheap" cable you will just heard complete silence (audio gaps meaning lost of the signal) or something like clicks.
So, no affect to sound at all. At least at audible levels for human (sorry whales, dolphins and bats).

Science and facts are useless against Faith and Belief.
 

redstang

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If the USB cable is capable of introducing this noise - then why use them at all? Most DACs have a fiber optic input - just use that one instead of spending $$$ on a USB cable.
 

Sal1950

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If the USB cable is capable of introducing this noise - then why use them at all? Most DACs have a fiber optic input - just use that one instead of spending $$$ on a USB cable.
But they do have their limits in bandwidth, Toslink will go 24/96 2ch, maybe 24/192 with some gear and short lengths.
 

Kane1972

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It's DIGITAL connection.
If you lost or distort data using "cheap" cable you will just heard complete silence (audio gaps meaning lost of the signal) or something like clicks.
So, no affect to sound at all. At least at audible levels for human (sorry whales, dolphins and bats).

I don’t think he was suggesting the noise effects the digital data side of things at all, he was suggesting the noise introduced into the system would go on the affect other components in the whole system.
 

andivax

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I don’t think he was suggesting the noise effects the digital data side of things at all, he was suggesting the noise introduced into the system would go on the affect other components in the whole system.

exactly!
in the REAL (not scientific) world situation it's weird to get 200$ USB cable for poor 60-80$ DAC.
 

threni

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Whether the noise spectrum induced by a £6 ebay cable is better than a £800 hand made one will depend upon your equipment, location, etc.

And your imagination. Imagination is like an orange - everyone's got one.
 
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