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From a quality point of view, does it make sense to DIY loudspeakers?

NYfan2

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I can understand that it is fun and that you can save money when you built your own loudspeakers.
But looking at the resources and knowledge that companies like JBL, Revel, Focal and many others have and use to design their products I wonder if the quality of a diy loudspeaker can even come close to the quality that these companies deliver with their products?

Best regards, Marc
 

pozz

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jeffbook

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If you can wrap your mind around multichannel active speakers with DSP EQ and crossovers instead of one stereo amp powering box enclosures then:

www.linkwitzlab.com
 

Colonel7

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I can understand that it is fun and that you can save money when you built your own loudspeakers.
But looking at the resources and knowledge that companies like JBL, Revel, Focal and many others have and use to design their products I wonder if the quality of a diy loudspeaker can even come close to the quality that these companies deliver with their products?

Best regards, Marc
Yes but you're saving a few hundred dollars only if you already own the tools to finish them and your quality depends on your skills. If you have a woodshop as another hobby then the savings could be substantial.

Another example besides the DXTMon is the Philarmonic BMR available here and measured by Erin's Audio Corner.
 

Biblob

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I'd say it depends. I think it's hard to beat a price to performance ratio against cheap active monitors, like the Adam T5V. But diy'ing does get more worth it if you'd want to use better quality products and/or the bigger the speaker, because cost of retail/consumer speakers cost a lot more generally speaking.

But using budget drivers there is a lot to achieve. There are a lot of well designed (relatively) cheap speakers. I can't come up with any names right now...
If you are willing to put time in it, you can get excellent results!
 

Aerith Gainsborough

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If you have the skill, knowledge and time, definitely.

One example: https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/dxt-mon-vs-neumann-kh-120a/
I recon that there are a lot of "failed" attempts on the way to getting said skills.

For the average joe short on cash and looking for a shortcut: no I do not believe that DIY is worth it from a quality perspective.
Especially not if you need to buy the tools and develop the skill to use them in the first place.

Also, per usual, people neglect the worth of their time invested. Time is not to be had for free.
 

ppataki

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I can share my personal journey that took me to the realm of DIY

I started buying speakers and amps in 2009, between now and then I had these models:
- Logitech Z5500
- Onkyo entry-level HT package (can't recall the model)
- Heco Metas XT 4.0 set with NAD BEE326 amps
- Nubert nuPro A-300 active speakers
- Nubert nuBox 513 and 313 set with Focusrite Clarett DAC and IMG Stageline STA-2000D amps
- Nubert nuVero 140 and 50 set with Apollo Twin X DAC and Hypex NC250MP amps

I thought at that time that I had reached what can be reached with reasonable amount of money

Then came the unexpected: I had the chance to listen to a DIY full-range speaker in my living room with my own DAC and amp
A few weeks later I sold my 'high end' speakers and started with DIY....

Now I have a DIY 4.0 set with Audio Nirvana 12" speakers and a DIY Double Bass Array sub config based on Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 drivers driven by Hypex UcD400 amps
(in the meantime I had a pair of SVS SB-1000 subs that I am now selling since the DIY sub solution is waaaay more superior in all sense)

I have to add that in order to get to this I had to:
- have a neighbor who is an excellent carpenter
- learn basic speaker design (BassBox Pro 6)
- learn digital room correction (REW and Dirac Live 3)
- spend literally hundreds of hours calibrating, fine-tuning and measuring the system (i.e. configuring a PC based mixed phase crossover, delay and various other DSP elements)

So in short, if you have the time and affinity you can definitely create your own system that will supercede most commercial 'high end' stuff - for considerably less amount of money
 

Juhazi

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Building and designing speakers is a hobby, like collecting stamps or flyfishing - nothing to do with "sense" or economics!

Most diy people start with simple 2-ways and designs by some gurus, which is a good thing. Gradually when you start to understand the basics of electronics, acoustics and carpentery, and have all tools needed the real fun begins - own designs! Typically an experienced diy person has and ideal or specific purpose for the loudspeaker in question.
 

ctrl

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But looking at the resources and knowledge that companies like JBL, Revel, Focal and many others have and use to design their products I wonder if the quality of a diy loudspeaker can even come close to the quality that these companies deliver with their products?
Can only agree with the other comments. One can achieve very good results with DIY.

But to be able to design speakers on the level of the top models from JBL, Revel, Genelec, Neumann,... you need years of experience and theoretical knowledge. I have been doing DIY speaker design as a hobby for more than thirteen years and continue to learn new things every day - would say I am competent in certain areas of loudspeaker design, and much less so in others.

It's really a great hobby, but you should be aware that you can't design a top 3-way loudspeaker in a few months without prior knowledge - except with a lot of luck.
 
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NYfan2

NYfan2

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Many thanks to everybody who replied to this thread!

It's good to hear that it is possible to built diy loudspeakers that are top quality and that can compete (or are better) then loudspeakers from a manufacturer.
I don't think that I'll have the time and patience to design a loudspeaker from scratch but I enjoy the idea that it is possible to buy a design and speaker kit that will deliver high quality.
I enjoy woodworking so I will certainly check out the designs that are proposed.
 

egellings

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DYI kits of known provenance can work out well, be they driver-xover-box dimension ones or complete kits including knock-down cabinets the builder assembles. Designing your own can be tricky, since test equipment that is costly is needed to verify the results and the knowledge needed is not easy to acquire. Trusting only your ears to proof a design is likely to result in sub optimal designs. The "my little Fi-fi" effect can distort the judgement.
 

FrantzM

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Hi

People end to overestimate their abilities.
DIY sounds "easy", fun and even economical. Building a DIY speaker , often requires a level of skill few people, even some DIY people in other fields, possess. I used to be a DIY proponent, until I recently tackled a sealed subwoofer design... a few hundred dollars later, drivers not included and having had someone else cut the plywood boards according to the designer, I realized that I may need a few more hundred of dollars of tools and consumable, glue, cleaner, caulk, sanding paper, tools, nails, clamps ... oh! Clamps!!! To make a box really square, you need several of those long clamps, half a dozen and counting ... Let's not even talk about finishing wood surfaces... which is something with a rather steep learning curve... then you make a small mistake after the wood assembly, you know, a bad soldier joint on a speaker that previously tested well and once you have closed the box, realizing it won't make any sound ... All this for a single sealed subwoofer.. I shudder at what it would have been for a more complicated speaker.

I may DIY some things, for the most part and for most people better buy one of those speakers tested here with extraordinary return on the dollar. THe king of these could well be the JBL LSR 308 which I own. For Subwoofers , someone here has produced a superb subwoofer evaluation tool... . Careful evaluation and research may lead to better results than DIY in most cases.

If however you have the your woodworking skills and know how to measure and well.. then DIY could be, perhaps, the road to sonic bliss.

Peace
 

tinnitus

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IMG_20210128_171601.jpg
You can build concrete concrete.
 

Helicopter

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If you have the shop and skill for the cabinet, then a proven design can be a great value, especially if you are going for something retro with the frequency response to match.

It will be very hard to match Harman group or Focal, but you can certainly match Klipsch Heritage. It is also pretty easy to do low end pro performance for loud live audio.

My first speakers were super cheap to do, and based on a little research, a little copying, and some luck and they sound better than my low expectations.

I used 8 inch Pyle woofers, cheap Piezo horns, a parts express buyout crossover, and cheap Chinese 'Baltic Birch.' Boy did I end up spending a lot on tools. Parts were practically free in comparison.
 

BenB

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...
But looking at the resources and knowledge that companies like JBL, Revel, Focal and many others have and use to design their products I wonder if the quality of a diy loudspeaker can even come close to the quality that these companies deliver with their products?

Bottom line up front: Yes.

But I understand your skepticism. When I was in college I was broke, but I was obsessed with speakers. My research into speaker design and psychoacoustics started as a way to ensure I could get the best value for my money. I wasn't planning on building my own. But by the time I had scraped up enough money to buy speakers, I felt like I knew enough to design and build my own. Between studying electrical engineering and reading the madisound board, I was fairly well prepared. I built a pair in my father's basement, and I was very surprised at how good the result sounded. Quality parts in an over-built box, and a bit of luck on my side created a result that couldn't have been matched commercially for the money invested (perhaps on the used market it could have been).

But after graduating and starting my career, things changed. I left the DIY speaker hobby for a few reasons: I already had a nice set of speakers, I had money to buy commercial speakers if I was inclined, and my time became more valuable.

What brought me back into DIY was a design idea that was different from commercial offerings. I may have money, but I can't buy something no one is selling. So I designed and built a set of multi-way, on-wall, passive CBT line arrays. I made novel efforts to address early reflections and diffraction, and committed to building a set of speakers following the science as I understood it, with no real way of predicting the result. It turned out to be the best speaker I had heard up to that point. I applied some reasoning similar to yours about research and budgets at large speaker companies, and got pretty excited at the prospect of hearing a far superior speaker, even if that speaker would cost many tens of thousands of dollars. Unfortunately, that search hasn't panned out. I've been to a couple audio shows, and made a point to listen to every single room. Unfortunately, I still haven't found a speaker that's even as good as what I built at home, let alone "far superior".

So now I'm back in the hobby, but with a different approach: I only build things that are substantially different from commercial offerings. My designs are more experimental. I'm really not interested in designing anything conventional, because that's a crowded space filled with lots of offerings with economies of scale on their side (and I consider the value of my time for projects now, which I didn't care much about in my youth). I have been able to accumulate some interesting perspectives based on this approach, though I can't say I have much of an audience for my ideas.

Here's a pic of the next concept I'm considering testing: a shallow on-wall wedge. The idea here is that the speaker box blends into the wall acoustically, approaching an infinite baffle, increasing coherence and efficiency. Since it can't be toed in, I'm picturing a small, wide dispersion tweeter and mid, necessitating a 3-way design. I have yet to pull the trigger on making this, partly because I just don't need another pair of speakers.
Cabinet_3D_V7_Flip.png
 
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Ericglo

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I used to be a big DIY proponent, but now it seems that some companies have put out such good products on the low end that it would be hard to compete. Are you really going to beat a JBL 308 on price as mentioned earlier with DIY? Maybe, but probably wouldn't save much. Higher up the price range seems to be a good place for DIY, as one can achieve a performance value.


Another example besides the DXTMon is the Philarmonic BMR available here and measured by Erin's Audio Corner.

While the BMR kit is a good value, it might be easier to just spend the extra $400 or so on a beautifully finished BMR.



Now I have a DIY 4.0 set with Audio Nirvana 12" speakers and a DIY Double Bass Array sub config based on Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 drivers driven by Hypex UcD400 amps
(in the meantime I had a pair of SVS SB-1000 subs that I am now selling since the DIY sub solution is waaaay more superior in all sense)

I have to add that in order to get to this I had to:
- have a neighbor who is an excellent carpenter
- learn basic speaker design (BassBox Pro 6)
- learn digital room correction (REW and Dirac Live 3)
- spend literally hundreds of hours calibrating, fine-tuning and measuring the system (i.e. configuring a PC based mixed phase crossover, delay and various other DSP elements)

So in short, if you have the time and affinity you can definitely create your own system that will supercede most commercial 'high end' stuff - for considerably less amount of money

I think the active/DSP wave is the new frontier and there is a viable DIY niche. The problem is the amount of learning time.
 

Colonel7

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While the BMR kit is a good value, it might be easier to just spend the extra $400 or so on a beautifully finished BMR.
Exactly - which is why I stated this immediately before. Don't know how Dennis and his partner make money on the finished but it's great that they do

expand...
Yes but you're saving a few hundred dollars only if you already own the tools to finish them
 

mikewxyz

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If your goal is to simply save money, I wouldn't bother with DIY. Buy used speakers instead. If your goal is to have a fun project and you have the tools and skills, then guys like http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ can help. If your interest and knowledge are greater than most enthusiasts, you can have at it (your own design).

I made my own speakers back in the day (patterned after Thiel 1.6). They were not great by today's standard but I did listen to them for 25 years.
 
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Rick Sykora

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I suggest there is tendency to oversimplify the DIY market. There are many segments that range from the simple hobbyist to those that are more skilled to those who package their DIY solutions for others. In every one of these segments there are speakers that underachieve as well as exceed the designs from big name brands.

Not every speaker that comes from a big name brand is a winner either. Along with the margins needed to be profitable, comes compromises in driver quality, cabinet quality and crossover quality (and electronics quality for active speakers). The larger the speaker, a manufacturer deals with higher costs of cabinet parts, warehousing and shipping. While design resources and custom fabrication enable the potential of a better speaker, these need to be paid for too.

In summary, given all this, my best answer would be DIY quality will depend on your skill set and the availability of DiY designs/kits for the type of speaker that you are seeking. :)
 
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