How the heck does Devialet do it?

[Piranesi]

So I came across spins of the Devialet Phantom Reactor 900 by Napilopez over at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tor-900-measurements-now-with-spinorama.9963/

Now, this isn't a cheap device. A single unit clocks in at around 1.5k.

But just have a gander at the measurements. It's got bass extension all the way down to a whopping 20hz. It's got a ruler flat response throughout, with great polars and ridiculously even dispersion. It puts to shame most studio monitors near its price. And it does all this while being about a size of a goddam basketball.

So my question is, what gives? What kind of black magic is Devialet using to get bass like that in a device that tiny, and with absurdly flat and even dispersion too? And if they can do it, why isn't anyone else doing the same? You'd think the vaunted Harman/Revel/JBL/etc and other similarly evidence driven companies would be able to offer something similar, and perhaps for even cheaper given that they wouldn't have the same huge marketing overheads and the manufacturing in France that Devialet does.

At this point I'm almost thinking to hell wth comparing waterfalls and SINADS and polar plots and looking at niche ass studio monitor reviews.

If this is as good as it gets maybe I'll just splash out on a pair of these mainstream lifestyle wifi speakers from the local mall and call it a day.

 

[Purité Audio]

Mitchco, ( Mitch Barnett who posts here) reviewed/measured and compared these to a couple of other active designs, the reviews can be found over at Computer Audiophile , well worth a read.
Keith

 

[Bjorn]

"Ruler flat" to a certain frequency says nothing without knowing the level and distortion. That's simply applying EQ with an active design and doesn't mean it will play loud at that frequency and neither with low distortion.

To me the speaker sounds distorted in the lows. That's very evident if one is used to large woofers.

Polars show a classic collapsing directivity.

 

[Absolute]

First of all, I love these little boom-boxes! All of the Phantom models have way too much bass relative to the rest of the spectrum, but that's usually ok for low to mid level listening. At higher volumes the small bass drivers is being gradually high-passed higher and higher in frequency to avoid over-excursion, evident by the compression tests that napilopez ran in that review.

This means that for all intents and purposes those little speakers are not full-range. They can't play 20 hz at an audible level.

Another issue with small speakers with low sensitivity is that they require enormous amounts of power to play loudish. This means thermal compression and probably audible energy storage in the drivers that will make them sound thick/heavy/slow compared to high sensitivity drivers.

While the Phantoms are the results of remarkable engineering, there's physicals laws in place that demands that any gain here must be paid for there.

Small boxes and deep extension means low sensitivity that requires huge power. Huge power in passively cooled closed system means thermal issues which leads to compression and distortion.
Small drivers taking huge power to move great distances will have a tougher time to slow down and start over again fast enough to compete with larger drivers with bigger and stronger motors.

In essence, small speakers start with so many crutches at the start of the race that they can't really compete all the way to the end. While they can certainly sound extremely good, which these things do, they're not capable of high-end performance due to the assholeness of physics.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Well unlike many people replying with guesses I have actually owned the original Phantoms for 6 years.
They use DSP to compensate for the natural roll off of the small cabinet and yes, it does mean it leads to requiring a lot of power at the low end, the bass amps in mine are 3000 watts each. Don't be scared though, it only needs that at the very lowest frequencies, most of the time on most music it is using an average of around 20 watts (I have measured it).
The performance in room is very good IME. The little new reactors will be more limited than the original Phantoms because they are smaller and so the drivers also smaller, but the clever design of the drivers gives a piston area way bigger than a conventional driver of the same chassis diameter, the original Phantom has 2 drivers with the same piston area as 2 conventional 8" drivers (yes I've measured it) so way more comfortable in the bass than a lot of speakers and much more than many internet surfers speculate.
The DSP does roll off the bass at highest levels to prevent damage but anybody who has heard mine would be complaining way before that happened on music (maybe limiting on film special effects).
The main shortcoming as far as I am concerned is they are designed around computer music and streaming which I rarely use, other than that I would be happy with them as my only speakers.
The ones I mainly use are about 50x more expensive, but i already had them before I got the Phantoms and they are much more convenient to use with CD and LP..

 

[sandymc]

All I can say is, I've heard the Devialet's, and I thought the distortion across the board was painful. Literally, they hurt my ears, and I don't consider myself to have "golden ears".

 

[onion]

For me, the Phantom Gold is a great outdoor speaker. But I've auditioned/ had Genelec/ Kii/ Steinway-Lyngdorf/ MK 300s - all of which are obviously better for stereo listening in my room(s) (less fatiguing, more detail, better imaging)

 

[JustJones]

Not sure if they're the same as the Reactor but Devaliet now calls the smaller version Phantom 2.The Phantom 1 has less power in the new ones, 1100 watts .

 

[Frank Dernie]

All I can say is, I've heard the Devialet's, and I thought the distortion across the board was painful. Literally, they hurt my ears, and I don't consider myself to have "golden ears".

Where?
I have seen them pictured in modern minimalist rooms for demos and nothing sounds any good in that sort of room.

I hear no distortion in normal use, at about 20dB below their maximum level which is a pretty normal to high listening level in my room.

They are cruising along easily with music.

 

[Absolute]

I had the Devialet Phantom here for 7 months while waiting for my Kii Three's to be repaired.

Here's a demonstration of what I mean with bass-heavy;

I never experienced distortion per se as a problem during normal use, but I'll check to see if I have measurements after Dirac calibration if there's anything to find compared to Kii.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I had the Devialet Phantom here for 7 months while waiting for my Kii Three's to be repaired.

Here's a demonstration of what I mean with bass-heavy;
View attachment 114552

I never experienced distortion per se as a problem during normal use, but I'll check to see if I have measurements after Dirac calibration if there's anything to find compared to Kii.

Mine are positioned to reduce excitation of main room modes but it is true, being flat anechoically to 20Hz (in fact level below 100-200 Hz) leads to a bass heavy in room balance.

 

[sandymc]

Where?

A dealer's demo space

 

[thewas]

What kind of black magic is Devialet using to get bass like that in a device that tiny, and with absurdly flat and even dispersion too?

Clever adaptive DSP for bass and flatness and curved baffle shape helps with dispersion too.

You'd think the vaunted Harman/Revel/JBL/etc and other similarly evidence driven companies would be able to offer something similar, and perhaps for even cheaper given that they wouldn't have the same huge marketing overheads and the manufacturing in France that Devialet does.

Such compact subwoofers and well behaving directivity loudspeakers exist also from other companies, admittedly not so often though combined in a single package.

 

[Thomas savage]

Well unlike many people replying with guesses I have actually owned the original Phantoms for 6 years.
They use DSP to compensate for the natural roll off of the small cabinet and yes, it does mean it leads to requiring a lot of power at the low end, the bass amps in mine are 3000 watts each. Don't be scared though, it only needs that at the very lowest frequencies, most of the time on most music it is using an average of around 20 watts (I have measured it).
The performance in room is very good IME. The little new reactors will be more limited than the original Phantoms because they are smaller and so the drivers also smaller, but the clever design of the drivers gives a piston area way bigger than a conventional driver of the same chassis diameter, the original Phantom has 2 drivers with the same piston area as 2 conventional 8" drivers (yes I've measured it) so way more comfortable in the bass than a lot of speakers and much more than many internet surfers speculate.
The DSP does roll off the bass at highest levels to prevent damage but anybody who has heard mine would be complaining way before that happened on music (maybe limiting on film special effects).
The main shortcoming as far as I am concerned is they are designed around computer music and streaming which I rarely use, other than that I would be happy with them as my only speakers.
The ones I mainly use are about 50x more expensive, but i already had them before I got the Phantoms and they are much more convenient to use with CD and LP..

Totally agree, I'd love to setup a pair of these with some subs to take the load off the phantoms down low .

A little EQ to taste and I really can't see a issue beyond them being a sealed unit in manufacturing, hence not repairable ( edit apparently this isn't accurate beyond the usual issues with integrated electronics ) . Thats likely a necessary compromise for this performance in this form factor.

I think where they run a cropper is with the common issue of human snobbery and ignorance .

They are one of the few speaker systems that don't annoy me straight away and remind me of what I listen too at home .

 

[Thomas savage]

All I can say is, I've heard the Devialet's, and I thought the distortion across the board was painful. Literally, they hurt my ears, and I don't consider myself to have "golden ears".

Won't be the speakers unless they were broken somehow.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Clever adaptive DSP for bass and flatness and curved baffle shape helps with dispersion too.

Such compact subwoofers and well behaving directivity loudspeakers exist also from other companies, admittedly not so often though combined in a single package.

There are indeed several DSB subs with 8" drivers from several companies nowadays. Even smaller too the new KEF DSP subs use 6.5" drivers and lots of power and are small too.

I just fired my Phantoms up, I don't use them much.
I would say mine have very low colouration - pretty realistic on speech which we are very sensitive to faults in. Very, very slight chestiness but better than most I have heard.

 

[Frank Dernie]

A little EQ to taste and I really can't see a issue beyond them being a sealed unit in manufacturing, hence not repairable.

That turns out to be an inaccurate story that was floating about. They can be easily stripped (4 bolts). Given the PCBs are stuffed with DSP and other surface mount chips that may still mean they can't be repaired without a board swap though, like all the other DSP actives prevalent today.

 

[Thomas savage]

That turns out to be an inaccurate story that was floating about. They can be easily stripped (4 bolts). Given the PCBs are stuffed with DSP and other surface mount chips that may still mean they can't be repaired without a board swap though, like all the other DSP actives prevalent today.

I put a edit in, thats news to me.

 

[sandymc]

Won't be the speakers unless they were broken somehow.

Well, maybe, but the dealer was there - it was a gathering for repeat customers to demo his new product line - and he said that was how they sounded.

 

[Absolute]

Mine are positioned to reduce excitation of main room modes but it is true, being flat anechoically to 20Hz (in fact level below 100-200 Hz) leads to a bass heavy in room balance.

The Kii's are flat to 20 hz (red in the graph above) which means the Phantoms are about 10-12 dB hot below 80 hz. I don't have good enough measurements of either of them to say much about distortion, but here's one somewhat comparable measurement between them from a single Dirac corrected speaker measured at listening position 3,4 meters away;

Kii is Brown and Phantom turquoise