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RF Interference in Speaker Cables??? (video)

Lambda

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in the picture you can clearly see one antenna element is made up from multiple wires in close proximity compared to the wavelength.

This was my education on antenae
I don't believe you at all

dipole antenae is one wire now, earlier it was 4 wires.
It has 2 poles. (2 elements)each of the poles (elements) can be made up from 1 to infinite conductor.

Would a wire work differently if each of the strands would be isolated from each other (actually yes rf wire litze dose this to reduce skin effect)
But it will work fine or even better as antenna element.

Whats yours, regurgitating wiki posts?
Licensed Ham operator and i build antennas myself
 

Cbdb2

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So your ham radio has more than one input for one antenae or are all the wires joined together somewhere? Your calling me a liar? Ild show you my transcripts if I had any respect left for you. And you dont have to know much theory to build something.
 
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amirm

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I don't believe you at all
Watch it. You need to share respect to other members and not make accusations like this. Thread ban issued. More sanctions will come if you don't dial down your dogmatic approach in these threads.
 

gene_stl

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Thank you for the video Amir. It is good to see you talking and teaching. It is sad that even here where you are paying for the bandwidth , no good deed goes unpunished.

If you hear a CBer he almost certainly is using an illegal linear amplifier. A legal five watt transmitter will not ring your amplifier for more than a few feet unless you try to couple them. The entry level for which is usually several hundred watts and they commonly are used at 2 or 3kw which is a moronic waste of power and money with mobile antennas. One clue is that they are very intermittent unless the moron lives near you. CBers as a group seem to believe that FCC regulations are merely a suggestion.
 
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amirm

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If you hear a CBer he almost certainly is using an illegal linear amplifier. A legal five watt transmitter will not ring your amplifier for more than a few feet unless you try to couple them. The entry level for which is usually several hundred watts and they commonly are used at 2 or 3kw which is a moronic waste of power and money with mobile antennas. One clue is that they are very intermittent unless the moron lives near you. CBers as a group seem to believe that FCC regulations are merely a suggestion.
The repair shop I worked at in late 70s and early 80s was attached to a retailer that sold CBs. People would buy them and bring them immediately to remove the limiter. They would be delighted when we would hook up a power meter to it and whistle in the mic as loud as we could and have it reach up to 25+ watts in some cases! As you say, they were overmodulated and distorted as heck but the airways were so noisy that people wanted all the power they could get. There was zero enforcement from FCC so was wild west.
 

gene_stl

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At the electronics store I patronized my whole life, which just sadly succumbed to no more electronics hobbyists AND covid (Gateway Electronics in St. Louis founded 1959 and I patronized the place starting about age eight) there was a character there who manufactured illegal kilowatt amps to sell to mobile CBers. For advertising the ruggedness of his units he would throw them out a second or third story window while operating at a kilowatt. Supposedly they would not show any microphonics. They were said to be very reliable. I never participated in CB though I did once get a Novice license and was a SWL even into my thirties.
 
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tomchr

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I agree with you that it is old, but not that it is good. I am asking about empirical data, not opinions and guesses.
Did you even read the article? Granted, you can certainly criticize it for the low number of participants, but the methodology is solid, the data are there, and the statistical analysis chosen to analyze the data is appropriate for the sample size. Is that not empirical enough?

Tom
 

Bruce Morgen

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I buy decent quality cables, proper copper, good looks, good plugs, reliable and durable. All this you will get in a 20$ cable. A 200$ cable? 2000$? Keep this for the subjectivists in audio.

A veteran audio engineer's look at what comprises "proper copper" -- it seems "OFC" is essentially a marketing term.

What about “oxygen free” wire?
 
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The new videos are really helpful and straightforward!

Maybe slightly off topic, but is there any audible interference with running speaker cables/RCA/HDMI near power cables (for the devices, not the ones outside)? I always heard you shouldn't run them parallel but it was ok to cross. If it did, would it raise the noise floor and would this be a reasonable way to test it?
 

ehabheikal

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A veteran audio engineer's look at what comprises "proper copper" -- it seems "OFC" is essentially a marketing term.

What about “oxygen free” wire?

I do not mind the marketing if it is in my budget, a lot of wires are aluminum or copper clad aluminum and i do not like both of these, call me old fashioned but when i was young there where no aluminum electrical wires in general distribution where i am from ;)
A veteran audio engineer's look at what comprises "proper copper" -- it seems "OFC" is essentially a marketing term.

What about “oxygen free” wire?


nice part there

"Suppose you have a system with adequately heavy speaker wire but the connections have gone bad over time. Simply removing and cleaning the wires and terminals and reconnecting them can make an audible difference. Incidentally, this is what can happen if the old wire is replaced with a new "miracle" speaker wire. By disturbing the terminals this can "accidentally" improve the contacts when the new wire with its clean surface is installed. A difference can be heard but not because of the new wire. The same change can be heard by simply cleaning the old wire/terminal contacts and reconnecting them."
 

Francis Vaughan

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Oxygen free has some, but very limited meaning. Copper gets used for lots of things, not just wires. For instance pure copper does not machine well, and a free machining copper typically has about 1% lead added.

Copper has a significant dependency between conductivity and purity. And oxygen content can make a difference, but still very much in the margins compared to most other contaminants. (Pic below from UK Copper Alliance)



element-conductivity.png


Copper for electrical wire applications is different to copper for other applications, and is generally as pure as reasonable to improve conductivity. To read more than you will ever want to know, High Conductivity Copper for Electrical Engineering (CDA Publication 122) Most electrical use copper is already an "oxygen free" grade.

Finally for hard vacuum applications, you really need to get every last bit of oxygen out, as it will outgas into your vacuum. Then you really do get the mythical Oxygen-free High Conductivity Copper

For audio, it is just woo.
 
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B4ICU

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RF with speaker cables is not alone among the fictions cable makers and dealers spread, to increase ignorance and confusion. It goes a long way:
Bi-Wire (a single wire with the same cross section of the Bi, is better!), directional (tell me if audio is aAC, on what half the directional cable works to improve, and on what half it is kind of a problem?), RF (Skin effect), Copper purity (The standard copper for electric wires is 99.8%, so how much are you asked to pay, to improve 0.2% or less?), Silver! (it conducts better than copper by 5% but costs 93 times more...you can get that conductivity improvement with copper, by increasing the cross section by 5%).
For most, if not all, the speaker cable is an enigma. Well it should not be! It can be calculated, using data of DF and cable length, to obtain the optimal cable for the first attempt. It is not: cut me 20' from the cheap roll at home depot, nor the ultra over priced branded cable with a celebrity name.
You can get the right cable and plugs/spades on eBay for less than $100.-
 

tomchr

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You can get the right cable and plugs/spades on eBay for less than $100.-
Or use connectors made for connecting speakers, such as the Neutrik speakON connectors. Not to start another shouting match, but banana plugs are awful for anything other than connecting a voltmeter to a circuit.

I find it remarkable how so many will geek out over the speaker wire but completely neglect the connectors at the ends of the cable. Crimps that aren't gas tight, spade connectors that rattle loose over time, etc. That will degrade the sound way more than any micro-diode (assuming those were even a thing).

Tom
 

tomchr

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A speakON connector is $5-6 at Mouser. Vs 10x higher cost for pimped up banana plugs. Just saying...

Tom
 

respice finem

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So, for a manfacturer, probably around $1-2. But why should we change if we get the stuff sold... :rolleyes:
 

Bruce Morgen

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That's right, and it's a shame most non-pro gear manufacturers are stuck back in the 70s with their speaker terminals. Like in AVRs, you're left with the basic choice of banana et consortes, or bare wire...

...or, best of all, bare and twisted-tight wire ends dipped in a little flux and "tinned" with solder -- one of the few soldering applications where the modern lead-free stuff is better than traditional 60-40 or 63-37 because the resulting tinned end is stiffer and tougher. Then you can torque that binding post nut down really tight -- and the same approach also works really well with those spring connectors found in so much vintage gear and still used on some low-cost speakers today.
 

respice finem

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I sometimes think the unspectacular "ancient" soldered tip and spring-loaded port was still better than today's twisted bare-wire without the spring. The old stuff did not tend to become loose and slip out, which the newer ones do. But seriously, it's cr@p one way or the other... For serious gear = Speakon (or go active and be done with it).
 
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mansr

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...or, best of all, bare and twisted-tight wire ends dipped in a little flux and "tinned" with solder -- one of the few soldering applications where the modern lead-free stuff is better than traditional 60-40 or 63-37 because the resulting tinned end is stiffer and tougher. Then you can torque that binding post nut down really tight -- and the same approach also works really well with those spring connectors found in so much vintage gear and still used on some low-cost speakers today.
Tinned wire ends should not be used with screw terminals. The soft solder deforms over time, leaving a loose connection. It's fine with spring-loaded terminals, though. Bare wires are OK for connections that are rarely altered. The dense forest of terminals on the back of AVRs can, however, make it hard to tighten them properly. That's a bit annoying. SpeakON connectors are nice, but mostly so on equipment that is reconfigured frequently.
 
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