What can I do with two Burson V6 Opamps?

[Chet_Jettison]

I was gifted two of these "high end" opamps. I'd love to use them in something, just so they're not lying around. I'm not sure what to do with them.
Open to recommendations. I'm good at soldering, so if there are any kits out there or other DIY options, I'd be totally onboard. Suggestions welcome.
Edit: They're "dual" opamps.

 

[Veri]

At the risk of sounding mean/ill-spirited I'd sell them on eBay, that's what I did with mine
I just don't believe they will do anything good to the sound. At best they don't harm the output, at worst: they do.

If you have a circuit with some cheap NE5532 you could replace them with ultra-modern OPA1656 which (probably) don't hurt anything and at best lower distortion by a tiny bit, but the Bursons won't better performance... they are 'okay' performing discrete op-amps sold at way too high price to audiophile believers. That's their market.

 

[Chet_Jettison]

At the risk of sounding mean/ill-spirited I'd sell them on eBay, that's what I did with mine
I just don't believe they will do anything good to the sound. At best they don't harm the output, at worst: they do.

Most people I have asked have given this answer. "Sell them" they all say. That's a bit of a cop out. I mean, they're opamps. I've got to be able to build something with them, right? I don't want to sell them, I want to use them. I should have said that in my post. If I sold them, the person who buys them would do something with them, yes? So what would THEY do?

 

[Veri]

Most people I have asked have given this answer. "Sell them" they all say. That's a bit of a cop out. I mean, they're opamps. I've got to be able to build something with them, right? I don't want to sell them, I want to use them. I should have said that in my post. If I sold them, the person who buys them would do something with them, yes? So what would THEY do?

Edited my above post a bit. If you're gonna use them anywhere you will need a chassis with some fair height since these are quite tall for op-amps. You can look at the Featured Customer Projects at the bottom of this page to get some ideas maybe. Sorry I can't be of better help.
https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v6/

As to what they do, they can be used in LPF/Buffer/Amplification stage of an amp, easy swap if it features a part on a socket which you can just pull out and replace. To actually know what you're doing you'd need to intricately know the design and ideally test stability on an oscilloscope though. That's why these chips are kinda silly. The hobbyist don't know much about the amp lay-out, they just swap and hope for the best.

 

[Chet_Jettison]

Edited my above post a bit. If you're gonna use them anywhere you will need a chassis with some fair height since these are quite tall for op-amps. You can look at the Featured Customer Projects at the bottom of this page to get some ideas maybe. Sorry I can't be of better help.
https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v6/

As to what they do, they can be used in LPF/Buffer/Amplification stage of an amp, easy swap if it features a part on a socket which you can just pull out and replace. To actually know what you're doing you'd need to intricately know the design and ideally test stability on an oscilloscope though. That's why these chips are kinda silly. The hobbyist don't know much about the amp lay-out, they just swap and hope for the best.

Thanks for the extra info!
Yeah, I agree they are indeed silly, and I feel the same way about their intended use/market. I've even read and agree with posts (even on this website, I think) about how op-amp "rolling" is a fools endeavor. But I've got em, and I stubbornly want to try em out.
I was given these two V6, and four V5i. I will say that I put two of the smaller V5i into a "little bear" portable tube headphone amp, and while I hear no appreciable difference in sound, they do look cooler through the little glass window in the amp. I also replaced the opamp in my Xduoo XD-05 Plus headphone amp with a V5i, because apparently it was designed with swappable op-amps in mind. Again, no particularly noticeable difference in sound... perhaps a slightly wider soundstage, but that sort of thing could be placebo. If anything, I'd say it sounds "more expensive".
Ultimately, the reason I want to use these V6 opamps in something is looks. I think they look cool. On a circuit board, they look like little smokestacks, dramatically rising up above all the other components. If I make something with them, I'd make a clear acrylic case for it, so I could admire their looks. That's about it.

 

[H-713]

Haven't looked at the noise specs on them, but perhaps a mic preamp? Some of the mic pres based off discrete op-amps get lots of love- API 312 and the Jensen mic pre using the 990 op-amp are long time favorites.

Again, I don't know a ton about the Burson op-amps, but they look like a very simple design. What little information is in the spec sheet is quite interesting- they're pretty fast compared to a lot of the normal audio op-amps.

Their distortion spec is pretty poor. That may or may not be objectionable depending on the nature of the distortion and the application.

 

[Bob-23]

I was gifted two of these "high end" opamps. I'd love to use them in something, just so they're not lying around. I'm not sure what to do with them.
Open to recommendations. I'm good at soldering, so if there are any kits out there or other DIY options, I'd be totally onboard. Suggestions welcome.
Edit: They're "dual" opamps.

If you're in headphones - you may build a Baxandall EQ/Tone Control, easy build, very useful, as this is what headphone amps are lacking!

First opamp for the tone control as such. Second one for a following (unity) gain stage with volpot.

"This type of circuit is possibly the most popular of all time", Rod Elliott writes.

Here's the schematics on Rod Elliott's great ESP-site:
in: https://sound-au.com/
Articles>General Information>Equalization - Equalizers, The various types and how they work> 4 Basic tone controls>figure 5

EDIT: If you need a power supply, one of Rod Elliott's Projects 5 will do it.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Like Rod Elliott's site which has many interesting articles worth reading.

I have attempted a couple of different ESP projects with mixed success. One caution is that Rods' PC boards are tiny and flimsy and the conducting foil is easily delaminated. If you aren't a adroit solderer and occasionally have to make a correction, you will find that desoldering in particular is likely to cause fatal damage to the board.

 

[egellings]

Make a nice line stage preamp with them.

 

[Bob-23]

Like Rod Elliott's site which has many interesting articles worth reading.

I have attempted a couple of different ESP projects with mixed success. One caution is that Rods' PC boards are tiny and flimsy and the conducting foil is easily delaminated. If you aren't a adroit solderer and occasionally have to make a correction, you will find that desoldering in particular is likely to cause fatal damage to the board.

Interesting...I've wired my ESP-projects myself on good quality doubled sided boards .

 

[Sam Spade]

Haven't looked at the noise specs on them, but perhaps a mic preamp? Some of the mic pres based off discrete op-amps get lots of love- API 312 and the Jensen mic pre using the 990 op-amp are long time favorites.

Again, I don't know a ton about the Burson op-amps, but they look like a very simple design. What little information is in the spec sheet is quite interesting- they're pretty fast compared to a lot of the normal audio op-amps.

Their distortion spec is pretty poor. That may or may not be objectionable depending on the nature of the distortion and the application.

That is interesting, Burson market them as an upgrade solid state to replace poorer performing IC opamps.

Sparko have a range and their Pro ones they specifically mention mic preamps. https://sparkoslabs.com/product/pro-discrete-op-amp-ss2590/

They have an adaptor to turn 2 pros into a dual.

They also have a standard single and dual op amp which I think is is plug and play for dip 8 the same horizontal dimensions as the bursons but much shorter

 

[Sam Spade]

Edited my above post a bit. If you're gonna use them anywhere you will need a chassis with some fair height since these are quite tall for op-amps. You can look at the Featured Customer Projects at the bottom of this page to get some ideas maybe. Sorry I can't be of better help.
https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v6/

As to what they do, they can be used in LPF/Buffer/Amplification stage of an amp, easy swap if it features a part on a socket which you can just pull out and replace. To actually know what you're doing you'd need to intricately know the design and ideally test stability on an oscilloscope though. That's why these chips are kinda silly. The hobbyist don't know much about the amp lay-out, they just swap and hope for the best.

That's 100% true, but I'm going to swap, hope for the best, and listen. If I don't like it, then I'll reverse it. I'm not even qualified enough to be called a hobbyist

All my past upgrade work (of which there has not been much) I've got done by a qualified tech with an audio passion as a hobby too.

 

[Sam Spade]

I was gifted two of these "high end" opamps. I'd love to use them in something, just so they're not lying around. I'm not sure what to do with them.
Open to recommendations. I'm good at soldering, so if there are any kits out there or other DIY options, I'd be totally onboard. Suggestions welcome.
Edit: They're "dual" opamps.

Hey chet, are they the V6 fual op amps and are they the red (V6 vivid) or the orange (V6 classic)?

Cheers sam

 

[Chet_Jettison]

Hey chet, are they the V6 fual op amps and are they the red (V6 vivid) or the orange (V6 classic)?

Cheers sam

Hey Sam,
They're the v6 vivid, dual.

 

[Chet_Jettison]

If you're in headphones - you may build a Baxandall EQ/Tone Control, easy build, very useful, as this is what headphone amps are lacking!

First opamp for the tone control as such. Second one for a following (unity) gain stage with volpot.

"This type of circuit is possibly the most popular of all time", Rod Elliott writes.

Here's the schematics on Rod Elliott's great ESP-site:
in: https://sound-au.com/
Articles>General Information>Equalization - Equalizers, The various types and how they work> 4 Basic tone controls>figure 5

EDIT: If you need a power supply, one of Rod Elliott's Projects 5 will do it.

This looks like a great resource! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Chet_Jettison]

Make a nice line stage preamp with them.

That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure I need one. My two headphone setups currently go PC -> USB DAC -> Amplifier. One setup is PC -> Loxjie D10 DAC -> Loxjie P20. The other setup is PC -> Khadas Tone Board -> Bottlehead Crack.
The Bottlehead Crack setup is terrific, but can only be used for high-impedance headphones, so I only use it with Sennheiser HD650 and Audio-Technica ATH R70x. The Loxjie setup works for all my other headphones. The Loxjie P20 sounds great when upgraded to vintage tubes, and it's a hybrid amp using 4 dual opamps. I'd try the Bursons in there, but I only have two. Ideally I'd be able to use the Bursons in a DAC to replace the Khadas for the Bottlehead Crack, since that's my "high-end" setup. But I haven't been able to find a suitable DAC with swappable opamps for that setup. At least, not one I can afford. The Aune x80 seems to encourage opamp swapping, but it's like $300, and I'm not quite ready to spend that kind of bread just to use these Bursons that I got for free.
I tried to use them in a Amanero Combo 384 + ES9038Q2M dac I got from ebay, but that setup had some really weird noise going on, so I abandoned it.

 

[AnalogSteph]

As brought up in the EVGA NU Audio Pro thread, this card's line out has been tested with a whole bunch of opamps, including a V6 Classic, results are linked here:
https://forums.evga.com/EVGA-NU-Audio-Pro-Certified-Opamp-Rolling-List-m3027421.aspx
This line stage appears to be of moderate impedance, low kOhms is my estimate, with a modest +/-5 V supply.

Unfortunately I can only describe the performance of the V6 Classic as "epic fail". Noise is not the worst of the bunch but only of the level of a dated NJM4565 (~10 nV/sqrt(Hz)), while distortion at 1 kHz is something like 15 dB worse than even the most mediocre IC opamp tested, and over 30 dB worse than the best.

Now Burson rates the V6 Vivid higher in "Transparency" and "Details", so its performance may be better, and I suspect higher supply rails would also help matters, but on the whole I'm afraid it's just kinda hopeless.

The datasheet for both suggests an open-loop gain of 70 dB with a bandwidth of 46 kHz, so its GBW (52 MHz) isn't actually that low... OLG is just maxed out at a moderate level in the entire audio band, a bit similar to some video / high-speed opamps. Slew rate (36...49 V/µs) actually is more than decent, too, even by the stricter standards of JFET input parts. So this part follows the old "if you can't make distortion completely inaudible, make it flat across the audio band" philosophy. Things may have looked substantially more competitive in a 19/20 kHz IMD test. But whether it would have been able to get close to e.g. the LM4562, I really have my doubts...

If they are still using a single-stage folded cascode architecture, that would explain a number of things... most discrete implementations of folded cascodes seem to be utterly disappointing compared to their IC counterparts. (*cough* Marantz HDAM modules *cough*)

In sum it's not surprising that the product page for these is audiophoolery galore, you certainly couldn't market them on the strength of their measurements...

 

[Chet_Jettison]

As brought up in the EVGA NU Audio Pro thread, this card's line out has been tested with a whole bunch of opamps, including a V6 Classic, results are linked here:
https://forums.evga.com/EVGA-NU-Audio-Pro-Certified-Opamp-Rolling-List-m3027421.aspx
This line stage appears to be of moderate impedance, low kOhms is my estimate, with a modest +/-5 V supply.

Unfortunately I can only describe the performance of the V6 Classic as "epic fail". Noise is not the worst of the bunch but only of the level of a dated NJM4565 (~10 nV/sqrt(Hz)), while distortion at 1 kHz is something like 15 dB worse than even the most mediocre IC opamp tested, and over 30 dB worse than the best.

Now Burson rates the V6 Vivid higher in "Transparency" and "Details", so its performance may be better, and I suspect higher supply rails would also help matters, but on the whole I'm afraid it's just kinda hopeless.

The datasheet for both suggests an open-loop gain of 70 dB with a bandwidth of 46 kHz, so its GBW (52 MHz) isn't actually that low... OLG is just maxed out at a moderate level in the entire audio band, a bit similar to some video / high-speed opamps. Slew rate (36...49 V/µs) actually is more than decent, too, even by the stricter standards of JFET input parts. So this part follows the old "if you can't make distortion completely inaudible, make it flat across the audio band" philosophy. Things may have looked substantially more competitive in a 19/20 kHz IMD test. But whether it would have been able to get close to e.g. the LM4562, I really have my doubts...

If they are still using a single-stage folded cascode architecture, that would explain a number of things... most discrete implementations of folded cascodes seem to be utterly disappointing compared to their IC counterparts. (*cough* Marantz HDAM modules *cough*)

In sum it's not surprising that the product page for these is audiophoolery galore, you certainly couldn't market them on the strength of their measurements...

A great deal of this is over my head. But for what it's worth, I have the "Vivid" version.
As I understand it, certain types of distortion can actually have a pleasing effect. Tubes, for example. I've heard that tube amps don't actually "measure" all that well, but many (myself included) find the sound to be very pleasing. I wonder if perhaps these opamps have a similar effect.

 

[Chet_Jettison]

Haven't looked at the noise specs on them, but perhaps a mic preamp? Some of the mic pres based off discrete op-amps get lots of love- API 312 and the Jensen mic pre using the 990 op-amp are long time favorites.

Again, I don't know a ton about the Burson op-amps, but they look like a very simple design. What little information is in the spec sheet is quite interesting- they're pretty fast compared to a lot of the normal audio op-amps.

Their distortion spec is pretty poor. That may or may not be objectionable depending on the nature of the distortion and the application.

I actually need a mic preamp. This sounds like a good idea. I wonder where to find kits/plans for such a thing?

 

[AnalogSteph]

What kind of mic are we talking about? Consumer electret? You might find a board intended for a TL072 or NE5532 or similar.

Or a balanced dynamic? Then ESP P66 plus associated power supply might be the ticket. Basically a variation on a circuit commonly used by Mackie, Behringer and others around the time.... I won't be surprised if it still graces Behringer mixers to this day.

For a balanced condenser you'd still need a phantom power supply, though you can buy that as an external box if you don't want to DIY one. You'll also find a decent compact mixer with everything already built in on the used market for not a whole lot of money (maybe stay away from old Behringer gear pre-Xenyx as they seem to have issues with bad capacitors).