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Beyerdynamic T1 Review (V2 headphone)

ZolaIII

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Here's my understanding of additive vs subtractive EQ. If I'm wrong, then please do correct me.
As far as distortion is concerned, your headphone does not care about the way you design your EQ. All that matters to it is the frequency response and volume you ask of it. A way to get the same end result, but with magically less distortion does not exist.
Regarding the digital side of things including headroom, I once again see no difference between additive and subtractive EQ.
Let's say you have a 10dB dip in frequency response that you wish to fill in.
You can either reduce everything but the dip by 10dB, losing you 10dB of headroom in the process.
Or you can boost the dip by 10dB and add a -10dB pre amp to avoid clipping, losing you 10dB of headroom in the process.
Either way, there will be no difference in headroom or distortion.
That's absolutely correct, how ever let's talk now a bit about things that aren't taken in consideration as IMD (from DAC/AMP) and a fact that applied EQ values won't exactly translate the same to analog output especially those with ridiculous values. It's actually funny that people think how complex EQ's with couple hundred points will do the things right or how mesured values on one rig are correct ones to EQ on other.
 

Pio

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Over 10 years ago I bought the 1st gen of the T1. Figured $1k would get me to great sound. I sold them a few months later, they just didn’t sound right. Price means zero in the audio world.
 

solderdude

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Agreed. A DT150 with DT100 velour pads is my main headphone.

Distortion DT150 with DT100 pads at 90dB SPL. Looks a lot like the normal drivers.
dist-dt150-l-dt100-pads.png

1% 3rd harmonics at 100Hz looks like compression alike behavior.

Below the DT150 with stock pleather pads.
dist-dt150-l-stock.png


Below the FR of the DT150 with various pads:
all-pads2.png
 

respice finem

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Give that eq a try and report back on what you think. The depressed 1 to 5 kHz is not good for anyone. Indeed if you can't hear the higher bits, you would want to hear this range.
I will, as soon as I have time (probably later today). Do you have some recording recommendations?
I can compare to the 1990 pro, to the 990 Edition, and, perhaps interesting, to Soul Byrd in-ears.
 

respice finem

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Over 10 years ago I bought the 1st gen of the T1. Figured $1k would get me to great sound. I sold them a few months later, they just didn’t sound right. Price means zero in the audio world.
I have the impression, the differences are sometimes (not always) in the audibly clean threshold of volume, and obviously in build quality, but for sound quality you're absolutely right. Still, I have the problem only a few headphones really fit my ears (physically, not sonically), and the best headphone is useless if it's annoying to use.
 
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Thomas_A

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Distortion DT150 with DT100 pads at 90dB SPL. Looks a lot like the normal drivers.
dist-dt150-l-dt100-pads.png

1% 3rd harmonics at 100Hz looks like compression alike behavior.

Below the DT150 with stock pleather pads.
dist-dt150-l-stock.png


Below the FR of the DT150 with various pads:
all-pads2.png

When I participated in an evaluation of more than 30 headphones in 2003 the DT-150 was rated rather poor with too much bass. It was not until I saw your pad experiments that I found the DT150 rather good. I liked also the HD600 at that time but low bass was just not there. Also the original AKG K271 Studio sounded fine. I later bought the K271 mk2 and found it horrible. Low bass and nasty peaky highs. The modified DT150 is perfect IMO. For travel I use the Bose QC25. It Is a bit weak in treble though.
 

Zensō

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So far more duds than winners.

I think we’re going to find this holds true for the entire headphone market. It seems headphone designs and performance are all over the map.
 
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Thomas_A

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I think we’re going to find this holds true for the entire headphone market. It seems headphone designs and performance are all over the map.

Agreed. ”All over the map” is an understatement when it comes to headphones.
 

okok

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how on earth could they price these at $800
instead of 80
 

Jimbob54

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I think we’re going to find this holds true for the entire headphone market. It seems headphone designs and performance are all over the map.

Am I right in thinking the only "premium" HP that has held its head high so far with @amirm is the HD800S? Lets say $500+ tag.

The DCA Aeon RT being just under that did very well of course (I shall be taking delivery of the Open variant this very week)
 

Zensō

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Am I right in thinking the only "premium" HP that has held its head high so far with @amirm is the HD800S? Lets say $500+ tag.

The DCA Aeon RT being just under that did very well of course (I shall be taking delivery of the Open variant this very week)
Yes, I think you’re right. And it’s not surprising given what the research shows.

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/price-sound-quality-headphones

Congrats on your RT’s. They’re on my short list.
 

npol

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Oh jeez. I got burnt with the heddphone and now this. This was my main headphone when I was in college. I bought it second hand for $360 and fixed it up myself. For the price it seemed really worth it, although I guess I should have gotten the Hd650 instead.
Looking forward to reading more headphone reviews!
Somehow I have an inkling the HD800 is gonna prevail over all the other flagship headphones tested.
 

vkvedam

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As I was running the distortion tests against some other headphones, I listened to a few seconds to AKG K371 and Ether AEON RT Closed. Oh what revelation those two headphones were compared to T1. Beautiful tonality with no sign of the distortion I was chasing above. That's when I decided the T1 is a failure.
:oops::oops::oops:
 

BostonJack

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I think Beyerdynamic's best headphone is DT860.
My DT880's have drifted to my electronic piano. I'm not critically listening there, more like: "Jeez, I really need to practice more".
Before that they were my "keep 'em at work and listen maybe 1 hour per day when the ambient noise was high".

They are comfortable and light.
 

YSC

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back when I could only afford a discounted HE-500 among the Duo between HD800 and T1 I kind of want the T1 with those descriptive reviews of how accurate and open they are and the look plus comfort makes me really want it, seems luckily I didn't
 

monkeyboy

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The T1.2 was described as a HD800 at 1/2 the price...looking at the frequency response, that seems pretty accurate...The T1.2, HD800 and Neumann NDH-20 seem to have a scoop from about 1k to 3k relative to the Harman curve. I would think the Neumann guys would tune the headphones pretty close to their speaker sound...I might drop on a NDH-20 and try to A/B test against my KH-310s....
 

respice finem

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how on earth could they price these at $800
instead of 80
They are certainly quite convinced of their qualities, and last but not least they are one of the last few companies manufacturing (at least their higher lines) in Germany. High taxes = high manufacturing cost = high prices. Same goes for R&D.
 

Feelas

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They will add. The addition will be very small though and have to be in phase to add.
When a bass note has a fundamental of say 50Hz at -20dB and a second harmonic of -10dB then a signal of -30dB will hardly increase the -10dB level.
Yet 30dB 2nd harmonic might mask 29dB near-range sounds, I think. Masking is the basis of lossy coding, so it does happen.
 

respice finem

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Give that eq a try and report back on what you think. The depressed 1 to 5 kHz is not good for anyone. Indeed if you can't hear the higher bits, you would want to hear this range.
Done. I've tried this with some stuff I've heard live, classical and vocals because this is probably the most revealing material, but also "rocky" pieces which I know well. Long story short (please remember this is totally subjective hearing based and will probably not apply to you):
First, I've tried to copy your EQ as best I could (with another tool since I don't use Roon but foobar 2000 with its DSP plugin "Graphic Equalizer":
T1 mk2 EQ approx. as by Amir.PNG

In bass, yes it's better than before, it does sound more like in a closed-back construction, if not quite. Anything more than this is too much. In the midrange, with the emphasis of the above shown range, sibilants of female singers (example: Suzanne Vega, Tom's Diner) sound strangely harsh to me (at normal listening level for me which is -16dB on the RME). Then, for violin and "airy" pieces, the -8dB dip at 8kHz is too deep a dip for my aging hearing, I don't hear the "air" I know to be in the recordings. Both effects are gone with "flattening" the EQ a bit, as ahown below. This sounds just right now and may become my daily EQ, time will show, I always need a few days to tell finally if the new sound is the right sound.
T1 mk2 EQ as it fits my hearing.PNG

My personal half-educated guess about this: Since every ear is different, and the ear forms a "listening room" with the headphone (filling a much larger part of it than of a normal listening room), probably an individually accurate EQ could be achieved only by measuring the FR in the actual ear, and then equalized for "linearity" related to the (again individual) hearing curve. Like with shoes, size 39 may be ideal on average, but if your feet are 43 it doesn't help much.
 
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Tks

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More proof that price nor origin matter in this industry. Said it before. I'll say it again, theyre shooting in the dark hoping something sticks.
 
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