CD Player failed.

[Kal Rubinson]

One factor to consider is that optical media lasts longer than hard drives. I've got factory CDs that are over 30 years old, and CD's I've burned from a PC that are 20 years old. If you buy high quality optical media, they last a long time. I've never seen a hard drive last longer than 10 years. Of course, we don't keep computers that long anyway. We tend to back up the data and transfer it to new discs.

Certainly. OTOH, a NAS provides data redundancy via RAID configuration so that the failure of a single HDD (or more) is quickly and automatically recovered simply by replacing that HDD with a new one. Having 2 NAS boxes provides a secure backup, especially if located remotely.

 

[sonci99]

I also still play cds..
I never found a dac that clearly sound better than my cd players, but It's not about that, it's the act of playing a cd from start to finish and then putting back in the shelf.

 

[Harmonie]

I'm younger than both @Frank Dernie &(@Kal Rubinson) and enjoy putting a CD and TAKING the TIME to LISTEN to music.

It's an analogy of going to the cinema and watching a movie on a modest TV.

Besides, I had numerous HDD & USB keys that crashed, but my nearly 4 decades CD's are still playin nice music to my ears, thanks to my transport that is also more than 25 years old and bit perfect.

At last, our listening ability won't improve with the years, unless we get a digital aid transplanted in our ears or brains in the years to come.
But then, all your CD ripping will be an old story as well guys

 

[restorer-john]

I have absolutely no problem with how people choose to consume or store their music. I too, dabbled in file based music at one stage when it was a novelty, but like @Frank Dernie I'm used to CD players that are fast. They load instantly, read the TOC in half a second and commence playback of any selected track in under a second. No streaming/file based system comes remotely close, even with a fast, always-on NAS and SSD based database indexing. Last thing I want is another LCD touch screen to play my music. I want a few physical buttons and that's about it.

And classical music is just better on CD. No interrupted tracks or pauses where there shouldn't be.

I agree that streaming/internet is a good way to find new music, but I find I'm doing less of that lately as the physical collection approaches 5 figures.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

They load instantly, read the TOC in half a second and commence playback of any selected track in under a second. No streaming/file based system comes remotely close, even with a fast, always-on NAS and SSD based database indexing.

I challenge you to a contest. We both start from a listening seat the same distance from the disc player (you) or streamer (me). Your CD rack is anywhere in the room, even between seat and player. I will not even stoop to starting play from my iPad at my seat but get up and walk to the streamer. All it takes me is a couple of mouse clicks which can be accomplished before your CD drawer fully opens and definitely before it closes. We can talk later about browsing.

And classical music is just better on CD. No interrupted tracks or pauses where there shouldn't be.

And while they never are with my player, either, it is also better at the segues within multi-disc works.

But seriously, speed and convenience are not essential. It simply that I find everything about file playback easier and more rewarding.

 

[Fregly]

So any dvd player with coax out to your dac will sound the same?

 

[Robin L]

So any dvd player with coax out to your dac will sound the same?

In my experience, better than using the DVD/Blu-Ray's on board DACs. Mind you, the Blu-Ray players I've used are over 10 years old. The sound may be just as good with the DACs in new Audio/Video players. While people speak of "all DACS sound alike", that's with an even playing field. But my experience is that older DACS aren't as refined as those made within the last ten years. I'm sure the sudden presence of smartphones has a lot to do with that.

 

[MRC01]

So any dvd player with coax out to your dac will sound the same?

In my experience, better than using the DVD/Blu-Ray's on board DACs. ...

@Fregly , to literally answer your question, "yes". They must sound the same, because they will "be" the same. Any DVD player that is not defective will read 100% of the bits correctly and emit them through the digital out. So any 2 will the sound the same, because they deliver the exact same bits to the DAC. This of course ignores things like copy protection (SACD), timing/jitter, etc.

@Robin L is referring to using the DVD's on-board DAC and comparing their analog outputs. That's different from what @Fregly was asking. Here, the players may or may not sound the same. Different DACs, different conversions using different software and filters, plus the differences in the analog output stages (op amps, output impedance, etc.), may lead to audible differences (e.g. sounding different). Almost certainly they will sound very similar, perhaps the same, but not necessarily exactly the same.

 

[Fregly]

@Fregly , to literally answer your question, "yes". They must sound the same, because they will "be" the same. Any DVD player that is not defective will read 100% of the bits correctly and emit them through the digital out. So any 2 will the sound the same, because they deliver the exact same bits to the DAC. This of course ignores things like copy protection (SACD), timing/jitter, etc.

@Robin L is referring to using the DVD's on-board DAC and comparing their analog outputs. That's different from what @Fregly was asking. Here, the players may or may not sound the same. Different DACs, different conversions using different software and filters, plus the differences in the analog output stages (op amps, output impedance, etc.), may lead to audible differences (e.g. sounding different). Almost certainly they will sound very similar, perhaps the same, but not necessarily exactly the same.

That is good to know that any cheap DVD player will do. I need a replacement for my old Sony. What did you mean by copy protection and timing/jitter....I thought the external dac takes care of the later. Copy protection I don't know how that would affect things.

 

[restorer-john]

@Fregly , to literally answer your question, "yes". They must sound the same, because they will "be" the same.

But the user experience is absolutely horrible. Current DVD players are plastic, disposable junk. The mechanisms, drawers and buttons are just putrid. They take forever to load and display a TOC, letalone make the decision what type of disc is there in the first place. I have some of the fastest early Sony DVD players and even they are a poor cousin to a quality CD player. Who wants a crappy plastic DVD player alongside quality HiFi gear?

Sure, the SPDIF stream may be the same, but the resistance to scratches on most DVD players is poor when playing CDs due to the fact most machines (apart from the earliest ones which used two discret lasers on the one head block) use a laser wavelength optimised for DVD, not CD.

What's particulary sad from my perspective is most current model CD players I have been inside, "feature" DVD chipsets and main boards, stripped down and packaged as dedicated CD players.

I'm from the school of a single product, perfectly optimised for the job at hand, not a jack of all trades, master of none approach.

 

[MRC01]

...What did you mean by copy protection and timing/jitter....I thought the external dac takes care of the later. Copy protection I don't know how that would affect things.

Regarding copy protection: many transports, if you play an SACD having higher than CD bit rate (say, 96-24), will down-convert it to 44.1-16 through the digital output. They don't emit the full resolution bits due to copy protection reasons.

However, if you have high bit rate recordings that you want to listen to on optical media, you can burn them to DVD in DVD-A format (there are open source tools for this), then play them in your transport, and most will emit the full raw bits to the digital output without down-converting. In other words, the copy protection crap applies to commercial SACD discs. You can get around it by burning your own DVD-A discs.

Regarding jitter. If the transport and DAC are well engineered, it should be a non-issue. But I mention it only for completeness -- just because the exact same bits are delivered to the DAC, doesn't *necessarily* mean it will construct the exact same analog wave. If the timing of the bits is slightly off or uneven, the analog wave could be different. As we have seen here in some of Amir's measurements, some DACs are better than others here. But pragmatically speaking, the differences are likely to be inaudible, if they exist at all.

 

[MDAguy]

Another vote for the CD here... my biggest regret (musically speaking) is selling off all my Vinyl back in the mid 80s for CD...

But were I to have sold all of those CD's and the one's I proceeded to collect over 20+ years, I think this would have turned into yet another regret..

And frankly, at least to my ears they sound just as good as any Hi-Resolution streaming service and don't rely on my internet to be working flawlessly.

 

[A Surfer]

Best of both worlds, ripped my entire CD collection and I use JRiver as my media player, no need to rely on streaming, although I do use Tidal when need be. I have kept my CDs. I do remember and enjoyed the journey from 8 Track to cassette, then onto CD and now happily with ripped digital files. I have to say the few times that I went down memory lane and I tried using CDs again I just couldn't feel the joy and magic anymore, it was just too much work. I sit on my couch, grab my phone and use it as a remote to run JRiver.

I know it isn't for everybody, so however you enjoy your collection, cheers, but for me, I've sold my soul to the devil of convenience. Damn seductive is all I can say. I also love the visual of being able to browse my entire collection and make playlists on the fly. I do feel guilty at times about my crated CD collection. Much like the Poe The Tell-Tale-Heart, I swear sometimes I hear them calling to me ...

 

[A Surfer]

Your opinion is strong, maybe.
I was an early adopter of file based music about 20 years ago.
I have pretty well gone back to CDs now.

It is, sometimes my mood overtakes my more diplomatic side. I've been grouchy lately, lack of sunlight and too much pandemic.

 

[restorer-john]

Much like the Poe The Tell-Tale-Heart, I swear sometimes I hear them calling to me ...

Yesterday, I bought 43 CDs for 50c each at an op-shop. So $22 (including a 50c bottle opener I liked). Less than the cost of one CD. Some still had the $29.95 price tags on them. Played some classics from my youth in the car on the way home with a big smile. They call out to me all the time.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I am a fan of JRiver.

I had a copy on a PC player with no screen a few years ago. I will look into it again.
I have given away my PCs since I retired though, don't know how it works on a Mac!

 

[restorer-john]

Yesterday, I bought 43 CDs for 50c each at an op-shop. So $22 (including a 50c bottle opener I liked). Less than the cost of one CD. Some still had the $29.95 price tags on them. Played some classics from my youth in the car on the way home with a big smile. They call out to me all the time.

For those who doubt, here's the haul, the receipt, and the bottle opener.

Our oppos (op-shops) count a double/triple CD as 1 (one). Gotta love that!

 

[A Surfer]

For those who doubt, here's the haul, the receipt, and the bottle opener.
View attachment 96729

View attachment 96730

Our oppos (op-shops) count a double/triple CD as 1 (one). Gotta love that!

Sweet! I do still buy CDs to rip from time to time, although I must say the prices on used CDs around here aren't anywhere as nice. Great finds. I have that same Eurythmics disc (sadly not great recordings but great music). Nice bottle opener for sure.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I had a copy on a PC player with no screen a few years ago. I will look into it again.
I have given away my PCs since I retired though, don't know how it works on a Mac!

There are separate versions for PC, Mac and Linux.

 

[Harmonie]

For those who doubt, here's the haul, the receipt, and the bottle opener.
Our oppos (op-shops) count a double/triple CD as 1 (one). Gotta love that!

Oh, I cherish Eurythmitcs quite a bit, but ain't a "greatest hit" fan, usually low Q recordings.

However, this one doesn't leave me Cold at all !