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JDS Labs Atom DAC Review

JohnYang1997

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That's good to know. I'd pasted on Topping's gear before because there always seems to be a issue with the first batch of new gear and I had heard nothing but terrible stories about their customer service.
Are you sure about that?
EDIT: This is second time you talking about this. I shall just ignore.
 

Error415

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You're free to ignore my posts but you need to be aware that I'm not the only one who this opinion of your employer and other Chinese companies products. You can act like I made this up but the polarity issue with your companies new DAC solidifies the idea (of passing on the first run of new Chinese products) in potential customers minds.
 

bboris77

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From my personal experience dealing with these companies, both are constantly striving to improve any glitches that their new products may have. JDS is willing to customize their firmware and devices to a higher degree (personalized engraving, adding more weights inside plastic cases etc.).

The main difference between the two is the fact that JDS takes longer to bring new products to the market and tends to move more gradually to newer DAC chips and op-amps. Their products are a little short on extra features like screens, user-selectable filters, balanced outputs, DSD, MQA, but big on reliable, glitch-free performance. For example, they include a linear power transformer rather than rely on USB power with their DACs. Their warranty is also twice as long.

Topping is very ambitious with their constantly expanding product line and, thanks to their products being available on Amazon, risk-free in terms of dealing with potential returns. Their products are more for enthusiasts who like to experiment with different DAC chips and filters as well for people who really need DSD, MQA, balanced connections and all those exotic inputs. In terms of reliability, I think they are very good as well. The only well-documented problematic product they had was the first version of DX3 Pro, and it was fixed with the second revision. Their products have a slightly higher incidence of little software glitches (my D70 had to be rebooted once every couple of weeks because it would freeze when switching sample rates), but none of them have been deal-breakers in my opinion. There are also some counter-intuitive engineering choices like having an OLED screen on a device that displays a static screen 99% of the time.

In terms of dealing with customer service, JDS is the best in the industry. @jseaber responds within hours, and for people who are located in North America, their RMA process is super smooth. I have never really had to send anything back to Topping directly, so I cannot say how that process works. @JohnYang1997 has been very responsive when it comes to addressing any product questions here though. I would not hesitate buying from them solely based on the fact that they are located in China.
 

JohnYang1997

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You're free to ignore my posts but you need to be aware that I'm not the only one who this opinion of your employer and other Chinese companies products. You can act like I made this up but the polarity issue with your companies new DAC solidifies the idea (of passing on the first run of new Chinese products) in potential customers minds.
Do you have any evidence of poor customer services? Terrible stories?
Also are you sure the brands you praised about have no issues when first launching a product? Relay sticking of Atom anyone? There was also weird interference issue with EL AMP 1 when I got it around 2016-2017.
Don't ack like all Chinese companies are the same. To think that is discriminative. Just like racism. Talk specific. Yes, polarity issue. Good one. We did best we can(many people returned the product with no issue), and any new products will have this in the checklist before sending to production.
JDS is great, like since day one. From C5 to O2 era, then the El amp then the Atom. All these products and improvements are seen by anybody that's very true. But on one hand we are dealing with people requesting 48Khz timed DSD files and full MQA on iPad, Android, on the other hand there's no native DSD or 384KHz support. Sure this is not important. But just think about it, this is very different, very different for JDS and us.
And we sell thousands and thousands of products. What it means is way more people will have questions and issues. You get support directly every day almost 24/7 from me, the actual engineer and a designer. Where else do you get that?
 
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gvl

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I had a good experience with Topping support, no complaints. The main issue of course is the logistics of sending the product back to China and wait time.
 

raistlin65

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You're free to ignore my posts but you need to be aware that I'm not the only one who this opinion of your employer and other Chinese companies products. You can act like I made this up but the polarity issue with your companies new DAC solidifies the idea (of passing on the first run of new Chinese products) in potential customers minds.

I wish people would not echo Chinese Hi-Fi stereotyping on this forum. I personally feel like some of it is based on ethnic/racial bias.

Not saying that everyone who has this attitude comes for a place of predjudice. But based on my experience on other forums, its very obvious some of it is coming from there.
 

highpurityusbcable

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I wish people would not echo Chinese Hi-Fi stereotyping on this forum. I personally feel like some of it is based on ethnic/racial bias.

Not saying that everyone who has this attitude comes for a place of predjudice. But based on my experience on other forums, its very obvious some of it is coming from there.
I've noticed a new trend in a true audiophile society recently. To put it shortly, something like: "only these...Chinese low-end devices have good measurements...", implying that they lack "musicality", "sound presentation", insert whatever.
 

GeorgeWalk

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I wish people would not echo Chinese Hi-Fi stereotyping on this forum. I personally feel like some of it is based on ethnic/racial bias.

Not saying that everyone who has this attitude comes for a place of predjudice. But based on my experience on other forums, its very obvious some of it is coming from there.

I have a lot of Asian made products. I buy based on quality, performance, and value not hometown bias. This Chinese HiFi bias reminds me of when I was kid and people insulted and mocked Japanese electronics and cars as cheap and low quality. "You should only buy American made", "GM, Ford, and Chrysler cars are better, yada yada yada." US manufacturers that ignore the quality coming from Asian companies does so at their own peril.
 

raistlin65

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I have a lot of Asian made products. I buy based on quality, performance, and value not hometown bias. This Chinese HiFi bias reminds me of when I was kid and people insulted and mocked Japanese electronics and cars as cheap and low quality. "You should only buy American made", "GM, Ford, and Chrysler cars are better, yada yada yada." US manufacturers that ignore the quality coming from Asian companies does so at their own peril.

Exactly.

I expect to see it on other forums. But sweeping generalizations about a company based upon country or region of manufacturer have no place in an objectivist forum.

Any observations like that are about as useful as subjective sighted listening tests of DACs that measure well. Only company evaluations like that are more repugnant since we know that racial/ethnic stereotyping plays a large part in it.

And what irks me the most is that many American companies did a lot to create this attitude. They switched to Chinese manufacturing specifically so they could get the cheapest possible products. If they had asked for better build quality and better quality control, they would have gotten it. Works for the American countries, because they let the country of manufacturing origin be the scapegoat for their own willingness to sell poorly made goods.
 

TheMarshal

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[QUOTE="raistlin65, post: 543026, member: 10922"I personally feel like some of it is based on ethnic/racial bias.[/QUOTE]

I'd have to disagree. It's based on elitists thinking the more expensive the gear is the better it is. o_O

I love both the DX7 Pro and the JDS Atom. I am happy with both Shenzenaudio's and Topping's customer support - and not to mention how happy I am with JDS's.
 

PuX

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It has less to do with stereotypes than with patterns.

On the one hand, there are a few good companies like Topping with lots of well-measuring products.

But on the other hand there are hundreds of companies that make and sell poor quality audio items and often just copies of western products (try searching for Naim or Lehmann headphone amp on ebay or aliexpress). Audiosciencereview has many reviews of pretty expensive rubbish (from Audio-gd for example) and many more of relatively no-name DACs that just aren't worth considering.

China will have a good reputation at some point, once the copycat products and ultra-cheap stuff are gone.
 

Sukie

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China will have a good reputation at some point, once the copycat products and ultra-cheap stuff are gone.
Why do we need to base our judgements on a nation as a whole? Good Chinese products are good, bad Chinese products are bad. In the same way that good American products are good and bad American products are bad.

The problem comes (and we do see this at times on this forum) when people make generalised comments based upon national perceptions rather than letting the facts/measurements speak for themselves.
 

PuX

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Why do we need to base our judgements on a nation as a whole? Good Chinese products are good, bad Chinese products are bad. In the same way that good American products are good and bad American products are bad.
I agree with this point completely, I had good and bad experiences with American products.

The thing is, the scale is completely different.


If you open ebay and look where the clones (and low-quality + cheap stuff) come from, you will get a clear answer.
 

jawbfl

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I agree with this point completely, I had good and bad experiences with American products.

The thing is, the scale is completely different.


If you open ebay and look where the clones (and low-quality + cheap stuff) come from, you will get a clear answer.

China is the world's manufacturing hub, major brands make their top tier products there but also the cheapest stuff is made there. What you need to understand is companies make what sells best, and since people like cheap stuff so naturally cheap stuff is what they want to make. It's a mentality problem IMO. If one day people decide they want quality products, then companies will still manufacture those in China, and then China will be known for quality.

TLDR, China is a mirror that reflects people's buying preferences.
 

bravomail

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Do you have any evidence of poor customer services? Terrible stories?
Also are you sure the brands you praised about have no issues when first launching a product? Relay sticking of Atom anyone? There was also weird interference issue with EL AMP 1 when I got it around 2016-2017.
Don't ack like all Chinese companies are the same. To think that is discriminative. Just like racism. Talk specific. Yes, polarity issue. Good one. We did best we can(many people returned the product with no issue), and any new products will have this in the checklist before sending to production.
JDS is great, like since day one. From C5 to O2 era, then the El amp then the Atom. All these products and improvements are seen by anybody that's very true. But on one hand we are dealing with people requesting 48Khz timed DSD files and full MQA on iPad, Android, on the other hand there's no native DSD or 384KHz support. Sure this is not important. But just think about it, this is very different, very different for JDS and us.
And we sell thousands and thousands of products. What it means is way more people will have questions and issues. You get support directly every day almost 24/7 from me, the actual engineer and a designer. Where else do you get that?

Thx, John! I personally din't have any experience with Topping products. But DX3Pro had a long thread of bad stories. And I'm looking forward to try E30 and L30 as they seem to be excellent performers. What we, the people, are trying to convey to you, manufacturers, is that a quality and brand reputation is very important, and working on it and "spending money on it" is worth it in a long run. Lookup the history of japanese auto makers, Toyota and Honda. They started humbly, their cars were made of straw. But then they looked to improve the quality and that became their Trump card, til this day American manufacturers cannot beat them. I'm from Detroit, I know it firsthand.
So, please, wince, hate us, but do start quality upbringing!
 

dmac6419

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China is the world's manufacturing hub, major brands make their top tier products there but also the cheapest stuff is made there. What you need to understand is companies make what sells best, and since people like cheap stuff so naturally cheap stuff is what they want to make. It's a mentality problem IMO. If one day people decide they want quality products, then companies will still manufacture those in China, and then China will be known for quality.

TLDR, China is a mirror that reflects people's buying preferences.
Apple ain't doing R&D in China,China gonna build it just the way you developed it,you pay for quality you get quality you pay for cheap you get cheap it as simple as that no matter where it built
 

Labjr

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When China design and build without contracted specs, they usually make junk.
 

raistlin65

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China is the world's manufacturing hub, major brands make their top tier products there but also the cheapest stuff is made there. What you need to understand is companies make what sells best, and since people like cheap stuff so naturally cheap stuff is what they want to make. It's a mentality problem IMO. If one day people decide they want quality products, then companies will still manufacture those in China, and then China will be known for quality.

TLDR, China is a mirror that reflects people's buying preferences.

^ This

It's very interesting how American companies have let China be the fall guy for their own greediness, and people go right along with it.

When American manufacturing moved to China, they often did not demand high quality control. That would have raised their costs. They let American consumers blame it on the Chinese manufacturing so they could make more money.

And retailers like Walmart choose to carry the lowest quality Chinese goods they can procure. They let the consumer blame China, rather than their own unwillingness to sell more expensive, better quality Chinese goods.
 
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