Dutch&Dutch 8C ATC active 50’s listening

[Purité Audio]

A client wanted to compare our record super ATC active 50’s to Dutch&Dutch 8Cs.
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/forum/loudspeakers/dutch-dutch-atc-listening

Keith

 

[watchnerd]

A client wanted to compare our record super ATC active 50’s to Dutch&Dutch 8Cs.
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/forum/loudspeakers/dutch-dutch-atc-listening

Keith

My expectation is that at low-mid volumes the 8C will do quite nicely, but if things get really really stupid loud the ATC will hold it together better.

 

[Purité Audio]

Your expectations would be wrong!
Keith

 

[watchnerd]

Your expectations would be wrong!
Keith

Really? I'd love to see pics of the motors and suspensions of the drivers the 8C uses.

The ATCs are brutes when it comes to power handling and max SPLs.

 

[Purité Audio]

I am really only interested in sound quality rather than max spls , D&D quote 105dB continuous from 35Hz , in terms of transparency, punch, drive and sheer enjoyment to listen to the 8Cs are head and shoulders better,
Keith

 

[watchnerd]

I am really only interested in sound quality rather than max spls , D&D quote 105dB continuous from 35Hz , in terms of transparency, punch, drive and sheer enjoyment to listen to the 8Cs are head and shoulders better,
Keith

Okay, that sounds about right.

BTW, I wish ATC would get their heads out of their butts when it comes to eschewing DSP crossovers and class D amps. Their drivers are still world class, but their crossover and amps are dated.

I would love to see what they could do with some Hypex and modern DSP inside them.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Okay, that sounds about right.

BTW, I wish ATC would get their heads out of their butts when it comes to eschewing DSP crossovers and class D amps. Their drivers are still world class, but their crossover and amps are dated.

I would love to see what they could do with some Hypex and modern DSP inside them.

Your wish that ATC would do «some Hypex and modern DSP inside them» may be lacking in realism. My point is that as speaker technology evolves, it’s become more of a system integration play. Being competent in just one part of the new value chain, but lacking in other parts of the chain of competence, means you are outdated. A dinosaur.

 

[Purité Audio]

I don’t believe any established loudspeaker company will make a speaker like the Kii THREE or Dutch&Dutch 8C, one speaker supplanting their entire range.
It is much the same reason why ATC choose not to use DSP for their crossovers, fear of alienating their core demographic.
Keith

 

[amirm]

So did the client hear them and if so, what was the outcome?

 

[watchnerd]

Your wish that ATC would do «some Hypex and modern DSP inside them» may be lacking in realism. My point is that as speaker technology evolves, it’s become more of a system integration play. Being competent in just one part of the new value chain, but lacking in other parts of the chain of competence, means you are outdated. A dinosaur.

I tend to agree, which is why I think there are probably only 6-10 speaker makers playing at that level (in-house drivers, on-staff DSP experts, serious measurement R&D facilities, etc.).

I'd probably say Genelec, Focal, Dynaudio, Harman, B&W, TAD can pull it off at large scale. Kii, Dutch & Dutch, Barefoot at the small scale end.

That probably relegates 70-80% of the Stereophile 'Recommended Components' speaker makers to dinosaur status.

 

[fas42]

Okay, that sounds about right.

BTW, I wish ATC would get their heads out of their butts when it comes to eschewing DSP crossovers and class D amps. Their drivers are still world class, but their crossover and amps are dated.

I would love to see what they could do with some Hypex and modern DSP inside them.

That sounds scarily like acknowledging that the electronics matter ... tsk, tsk, tsk ...

I used to be amazed at how much brute power sound very ordinary drivers could deliver into the room - but those days are long gone - the driving electronics are always the weak link.

 

[watchnerd]

I used to be amazed at how much brute power sound very ordinary drivers could deliver into the room - but those days are long gone - the driving electronics are always the weak link.

So are you telling me that if I hook up an itsty bitsy LS 3/5A monitor, with low sensitivity and low max SPL, to a massively overpowered amp, the amp is the weak link in that chain?

Seriously?

 

[Purité Audio]

So did the client hear them and if so, what was the outcome?

Ordered the 8Cs. It has been the same outcome with everyone who has heard them, (the 8Cs) they are exceptional loudspeakers.
Keith

 

[svart-hvitt]

Ordered the 8Cs. It has been the same outcome with everyone who has heard them, (the 8Cs) they are exceptional loudspeakers.
Keith

«...they are exceptional loudspeakers».

And last month it was Kii Three, right?

When did exceptional become the norm?

Somehow, however, you’re kind of right. Modern competent loudspeakers are exceptional compared to legacy speakers.

 

[Purité Audio]

The Kiis and the Dutch&Dutch share many qualities, they both feature a cardioid response although they create it using quite different methods, both relatively compact ,both full range , both are capable of adjusting their output, boundary filters, tone controls the 8Cs also have built in EQ should you need it.
The difference compared to traditional speakers is that you simply hear more , more direct less reflected sound leads to a clearer more delineated sound .
The improvement in SQ is so striking so immediately obvious that other manufacturers will have to follow.
Keith

 

[amirm]

Ordered the 8Cs. It has been the same outcome with everyone who has heard them, (the 8Cs) they are exceptional loudspeakers.
Keith

Ah, congratulations then. Do you know if they will be at any future audio shows in US so that I can hear them?

 

[Purité Audio]

D&D definitely have US representation because this chap has a pair,
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/1185112-dutch-amp-dutch-8cs-remarkable-speakers.html
Ask to hear a pair at home , the sound quality improvement is complete;y obvious when you can directly compare them .
My mistake their US distributor is listed,
http://dutchdutch.com/contact#distributors


Keith

 

[fas42]

So are you telling me that if I hook up an itsty bitsy LS 3/5A monitor, with low sensitivity and low max SPL, to a massively overpowered amp, the amp is the weak link in that chain?

Seriously?

Well, if you want to be difficult and nominate a speaker that was engineered very deliberately for listening to speaking voices - and SPLs was the last priority ... so be it.

I'm talking about the cheap and cheerful drivers found in standard kit - they're engineered well enough so that the idiots at the last weekend's party don't kill them instantly when they rev up things up for a rockin' good time ... I have some Sharp drivers in a cheap, almost cardboard carcase of boombox speakers - hefty magnet, nice rubber in the suspension, plenty of movement - they're rated at handling 250W, stamped by the manufacturer of the driver - and I believe them; driven by less than 1/10 of that they are completely comfortable, barely in first gear. I have no doubt that these could get my ears bleeding in 10 minutes, fed with the right material ...

 

[amirm]

What's the retail price on these Keith?

 

[jhaider]

Really? I'd love to see pics of the motors and suspensions of the drivers the 8C uses.

The ATCs are brutes when it comes to power handling and max SPLs.

The midrange looks like a Seas. It is somewhat customized, as Seas' standard 8" midwoofer has a silver colored cone. From 6moons:

I do not know what the woofers are, but outwardly they look similar to these Dayton 8" subwoofers: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/dutchdutch/8.jpg

If they are different woofers, I would expect broadly similar specifications.

If my driver speculation is correct, I would not expect any dynamic deficiencies compared to that ATC. The 8C has more cone area and volume displacement everywhere except maybe at the top of the ATC dome's passband. The 8C is smaller and probably less efficient everywhere except at the bottom of the tweeter's passband, but it has more power to compensate.