All about Reel-to-Reel Tapes

[amirm]

My favorite vintage audio format youtuber, Techmoan is at it again, this time with a nice introduction of Reel to Reel format.

 

[watchnerd]

Always loved the Revoxes...

 

[sergeauckland]

My background is in tape, as that's where my early training was. My first job after University was designing electronics for high-speed tape duplicators, and devices for analysing blank tape for quality before duplication. Machines I worked on were Ampex 360s and AG440s, and Philips Pro50s and Pro75s.

I learnt a lot about tape, it's limitations and how to get the best out of it, and became something of an obsessive about tape machine line-up. Later I worked at Ampex, so got involved with the ATR series and MM1000 series. Fun times, however, as soon as recording onto hard-disc became possible, I was more than happy to get rid of tape and avoid all the hassles that went with it.

As I said on another thread, I'm fascinated by the dead-ends of audio and tape is one of them, and although I'm now and then working on restoring a 1963 Ferrograph tape machine, I have no nostalgia for the medium. They do look lovely, though, with big reels going round,VU meters twitching, and the smell.....

S.

 

[Frank Dernie]

My B77 isn't smelling too good Serge . I played a tape the other day, went through to eat after rewinding the tape and when I came back the room smelt a bit "hot pcb" which i traced back to the Revox.
Tim de Paravincini offered to rebuild it for me over the holidays but I need to check how much that will cost since I use it once in a blue moon so may do it myself!

 

[sergeauckland]

My B77 isn't smelling too good Serge . I played a tape the other day, went through to eat after rewinding the tape and when I came back the room smelt a bit "hot pcb" which i traced back to the Revox.
Tim de Paravincini offered to rebuild it for me over the holidays but I need to check how much that will cost since I use it once in a blue moon so may do it myself!

I had a Brenell 510 years ago, (this was the rare 10.5" version of the normal Series 5) and after a few hours of running, the motors would start to give out that lovely melting varnish smell, and the reels would warm up and the tape itself had an odour. Mind you, much less than the smell of hot Bodine motor on an Ampex 360 after a day in the studio.

Those 360s had motors that could run a washing machine in their spare time.

S.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I am slightly bemused by the "resurgence" of tape.
I am firmly of the opinion that mastering trumps format, so whether we listen to CD, LP, streaming or R2R tape the sound quality is dominated by whether it is actually a good recording we are listening to, and any benefit there may be to R2R is down to the extreme care used in making the tapes.
It is a bit like the "lost recordings" LPs which are all made from a digital file created from the master tape by a Devialet amplifier. At its very best the LP can't be any better than the digital file, though there may be some pleasant artefacts added.
These tapes are truly spectacularly expensive as is the kit used to play them.
I would wager that the digital file used to these recordings would sound at least as good.

 

[watchnerd]

I am slightly bemused by the "resurgence" of tape.
I am firmly of the opinion that mastering trumps format, so whether we listen to CD, LP, streaming or R2R tape the sound quality is dominated by whether it is actually a good recording we are listening to, and any benefit there may be to R2R is down to the extreme care used in making the tapes.
It is a bit like the "lost recordings" LPs which are all made from a digital file created from the master tape by a Devialet amplifier. At its very best the LP can't be any better than the digital file, though there may be some pleasant artefacts added.T
These tapes are truly spectacularly expensive as is the kit used to play them.
I would wager that the digital file used to these recordings would sound at least as good.

I own 3 of the Devialet Lost Recordings.

The digital files are definitely high fidelity, as close to the master tapes as one can get.

But they don't have the same time machine anachronistic appeal as the LPs.

 

[topoxforddoc]

I am slightly bemused by the "resurgence" of tape.
I am firmly of the opinion that mastering trumps format, so whether we listen to CD, LP, streaming or R2R tape the sound quality is dominated by whether it is actually a good recording we are listening to, and any benefit there may be to R2R is down to the extreme care used in making the tapes.
It is a bit like the "lost recordings" LPs which are all made from a digital file created from the master tape by a Devialet amplifier. At its very best the LP can't be any better than the digital file, though there may be some pleasant artefacts added.
These tapes are truly spectacularly expensive as is the kit used to play them.
I would wager that the digital file used to these recordings would sound at least as good.

Frank, we must find time for you either to come round or I can bring a machine over to Wantage with some tapes

 

[Frank Dernie]

Frank, we must find time for you either to come round or I can bring a machine over to Wantage with some tapes

It would be nice to see you Charlie and I don't doubt the tapes you have sound lovely but I still don't think they are worth the money myself

 

[Cosmik]

I have numerous tape machines, not touched for many years. I recently decided to go through some of them with a mind to selling them. Not one of them worked! In all cases there were mechanical problems due to perished rubber, oxidation or gummed up lubricants. Or channels recording at very low level, or failing to erase what was underneath. It would be terribly easy to destroy or damage a valuable tape by stretching it, or spooling it out all over the floor because of some dodgy brake band or solenoid or whatever.

 

[amirm]

Yes, with mechanical things, you have to use it or they will self destruct. And getting parts can be very difficult for R2R decks.

That said, even non-working ones fetch good money these days.

 

[watchnerd]

I started a thread on the tapeheads forum asking about using DSP (in my Devialet, in this case), to implement NAB and IEC curves.

Some seemed to think it was a fine idea, others recoiled....I guess "because digital"?

 

[amirm]

For sure. Majority of users of R2R are diehard analog fans. They think it sounds good because it is analog.

 

[watchnerd]

For sure. Majority of users of R2R are diehard analog fans. They think it sounds good because it is analog.

I think reel to reel sounds good because it's more fun to watch than digital.

 

[restorer-john]

I think reel to reel sounds good because it's more fun to watch than digital.

Yep. There's nothing like watching 7.5" IPS flying by, or 15" IPS. 2400ft goes pretty fast, even on a nice 10.5" NAB reel. Amir's does 30" IPS?

I've got half a dozen RTRs, haven't played with them since I restored the last one (Pioneer RT-909). My favourite is an Akai GX-625. I've got a big TEAC beast I can hardly lift.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have a friend who designs and builds hifi electronics who genuinely believes that adding anything digital ruins a hifi, and he has a lot of customers and friends who believe him.
He pretty well refuses to engage in any discussion with me about it, changing the subject when I point out that the first recorder I used where I could not tell the difference between the microphone signal and the recording was a StellaDAT.
For me the one situation where the accuracy of digital is self evident is in making recordings. People who have not done it can not make such a convincing comparison.
I don't record on my Revox B77 any more but have lots of tapes. It needs a rebuild and I am in two minds whether to get Tim de Paravincini to do it or do it myself. Tim offered to do it when he is back in the UK at Christmas but I fear it will be very expensive for a little used item.

 

[andymok]

We got a Stellavox sitting in the office @@

Lovely if someone can tell me about it's story

 

[SIY]

I spent years lugging around and maintaining an Ampex 351 2 track. These days, I can get stunningly better performance with a $100 interface plugged into my laptop, and no hernias.

I don't miss R2R even a little bit.

 

[Frank Dernie]

We got a Stellavox sitting in the office @@

Lovely if someone can tell me about it's story

Does it work? The original, which I have, stopped working. I think the battery went flat and the EPROM lost its programme. Later the design was taken over by Sonosax who made quite a few changes and were not interested in trying to get mine to work again

 

[watchnerd]

We got a Stellavox sitting in the office @@

Lovely if someone can tell me about it's story

Does it work? Are you selling?