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Revel F328Be Speaker Review

Alexanderc

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Several posts here seem to be confusing the f328 in this review with the f228, which is similar (in looks/size/driver & port configuration) to the f208. Maybe I’m just misreading those posts, but it’s worth pointing out to avoid confusion.
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f228be
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thefsb

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This was our 100th speaker review and measurements!!! Hooray!

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Hard to imagine testing so many speakers since January. When I bought the Klippel NFS measurement system, I was wondering how it would ever pay for itself. I figured if I tested 100 speakers, it would still cost $1000 per so we could have just asked a service to do the work. But here we are in less than a year and we are already passing that benchmark. Here is to another 100 speaker reviews!
Hat tip! This is quite an accomplishment. I have learned a lot from reading these reviews and trying to understand what they mean. Thank you.
 

pierre

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I plotted Harmann data v.s. ASR data. Clearly it tracks very well except below 300 hz.
You can compare scores and details here.

Even if the score is low, I am sure this speaker is excellent with lot of bass and low distorsion. I would be surprise you could here the difference with and without EQ (above Schroeder) in a normal room. It would be interested to compare them to my Genelec 8361 for example.
 

SpaceMonkey

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It would be really great to see JBL4367. They seem to run circles around Revel in terms of distortion (taken from here https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...g/jbl-4367-studio-monitor-loudspeaker-review/ ) :
On The Bench
Benchmark audio tests of the JBL 4367 Studio Monitor Loudspeaker were conducted using a calibrated Earthworks M30 microphone. The source device was a LYNX Two professional PC sound card using test signals created by SpectraPLUS audio measurement software. Measurements for on and off axis frequency response were taken at a distance of 1 meter from the speaker while distortion measurements were taken at 1 foot distance from the appropriate driver.
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The JBL 4367’s on-axis frequency response shows essentially textbook good behavior from 500 Hz right up to 20 kHz and certainly a little beyond. Everything below 300 Hz is governed by room modes and is less of a concern at this point with this measurement.
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This chart shows the on-axis frequency response directly compared to the 30 degree off-axis measurement. The two plots track each other tightly until we get to about 13 kHz where the treble energy begins to gently roll off.
jbl-4367-review-img21.jpg

This graph shows an averaged in room response that was culled from six measurements taken at various points around the main listening area. Unlike the on-axis measurement, this tries to give a better indication of what the speaker’s legitimate response is. There is a very mild upper treble reduction beyond 13 kHz but this is typical for most speakers in room. The entire midrange to lower treble area is exceptionally flat and well behaved. The bass region shows a gentle lift from room gain at 150 Hz down to almost 30 Hz where it begins to gradually roll off.
jbl-4367-review-img22.jpg

Distortion measurements for speakers are typically done at a 90 dB reference point but the distortion numbers for the JBL 4367s were low enough that I also measured them at 100 dB to really see what these drivers could do. This is considered loud by any stretch and some lesser drivers would balk at these levels. This particular graph shows a distortion level at 10 kHz of only 0.389017% at 100 db. Essentially inaudible.
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At 5 kHz the distortion level at 100 dB is lower still, at 0.364581%. Also, inaudible.
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At 1 kHz the distortion level at 100 dB drops even further to 0.096540%!
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At 500 Hz the distortion level at 100 dB goes even lower to 0.066376%. That is remarkable and counts towards a squeaky-clean sounding midrange.
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At 250 Hz the distortion level at 100 dB begins to rise ever so slightly to 0.080793%.
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I seem to have misplaced my 100 dB distortion measurement at 40 Hz but I kept the one I took at 95 dB which shows a distortion level of only 0.127169%. Still inaudible and I guarantee at 100 dB, it was barely any higher than this.
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At 32Hz, the distortion level at 100 dB rises gradually to only 0.453090%! Remember that distortion levels in speakers are commonly considered to be audible at levels of 10%.
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At 24 Hz the distortion level at 100 dB rises to just below the level of audibility, when measured at the driver, at 9.55191%. This is taxing the driver to beyond the limits of its low-end rating and should be considered an excellent showing at this SPL.
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For the sake of comparison when the same 24 Hz measurement is taken at the ports, where most of the sound will be emanating from at this frequency, the distortion level is only 2.639647%!
 

SimpleTheater

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Truth to be told, I measured this speaker weeks back. But then it sat in the garage because I could not figure out how to carry it to our loft to listen to it. I almost post just the measurements but then I thought questions of sound and comparison against my Revel Salon 2 would come from every angle. Asked my wife if should could help me drag it upstairs and she said no way as did my back. Didn't know what to do for a while until I realized there was another option: create a setup in our living room which is at the same level as the garage. So I built a quick system out of Matrix Element i streamer and DAC plus Purifi Amplifier.

Another option would be to buy a hand truck. Lets donate to the cause!
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
 

MediumRare

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The other thing with subs is too much bass. When watching movies I am game for that. But with music it can get too much with some music, and not with others. Hooked up a sub to our living room TV system and had to disconnect it after a few hours since the commercials had the most bass!

Not saying don't use a sub but you are in for a lot of work to get them to work well.
I find I change the level of my Velodyne DD18 depending on the content (there's a remote with handy presets). The bass content on anything before the last 10 years varies dramatically. It does put the listener in the position of being a mix engineer.

But that doesn't have to do with subs v. floorstanders per se, only that with most floorstanders you're not hearing much below 35 hz, no matter how you eq it.
 

Rick Sykora

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Now that we have a reference floorstander, need some comparables...

Something from Salk or Selah (for half the price!). Or a Tekton Double Impact for less than a quarter as much.

How about a DIY challenge with comparable SB drivers? If you copy the F228be, there is about $800 worth of drivers and the crossover might be another $300 (depending on component quality). Shipping would a killer, but maybe we find a builder close to Amir?

Yes, might also have to factor in something or someone to help Amir move them around ;).
 
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Frank Dernie

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View attachment 92744

2018 edition. Lots of additions from previous version.

Excellent chapter on effect of multisub+SFM in bass reproduction for more than one seats -chapter 8.2.8.
Wow.
That is the edition I ordered 2 ½ years ago to get the latest one, I had not realised the one they sent was not it.
Amazon UK sent me an old edition.
How very annoying.
 

ctrl

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The ripples shoud be inaudible but will they cause intermodulation distortion or some other negative effect? Those Deep Ceramic Composite drivers are like little bells ringing.

The small ripples in the axis frequency response are unwanted resonances, but they are unlikely to cause additional intermodulation distortion.
The cause is not quite clear to me. The cone ceramic coating is supposed to suppress early partial oscillations, which means that the chassis cone is especially stiff and therefore has only a low tendency to resonate (up to the chassis breakup).
The chassis drive is also unobtrusive, at least in terms of harmonic distortion, which is very good.

The midrange driver uses a narrow rubber surround that is only folded once - at least it looks like this on photos. Perhaps there are problems with the transition from cone to surround, which then causes the unevenness in the frequency response and the resonances when it decays or a problem with the vented pole (This is pure speculation, fantasy, ... without facts).

UPDATE: The frequency response measurements of the F226Be, with the same midrange driver as the F338Be, by @hardisj show, due to the stronger smoothing, no noticeable unevenness - only from the frequency range above 800Hz "typical" surround resonances appear.

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It would be interesting to have a look at the CSD.

Check out the CSD of the F228Be measured by Stereophile.com. The midrange/treble unit (5.25'' mid-driver + 1'' dome) is identical to the F338Be.
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hardisj

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The midrange driver uses a narrow rubber surround that is only folded once - at least it looks like this on photos. Perhaps there are problems with the transition from cone to surround, which then causes the unevenness in the frequency response and the resonances when it decays (This is pure speculation, fantasy, ... without facts).

Check my review. I specifically mention this surround being different than the woofers' surrounds.
 

Rick Sykora

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I don't wanna keep harping on this, but I think the F226Be was already worthy of that title and based on the data I am seeing, is a better value as well.

IMHO, of course.

Note I was just stating a baseline reference as it is what Amir tested.

If I were designing a comparable DIY speaker, would choose the larger woofer in the FE228 over the smaller one in the FE226 without hesitation.
 

andreasmaaan

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I don't wanna keep harping on this, but I think the F226Be was already worthy of that title and based on the data I am seeing, is a better value as well.

IMHO, of course.

I have to agree with you. The F226Be does appear to be a better proposition overall.

In particular, it seems to have a smoother low end (no downward shelf below 200Hz, and a less premature roll-off), a more balanced midrange (no obvious broadband bump between 200Hz and 1000Hz) and virtually identical highs. Horizontal beamwidth on the F226Be also appears to be slightly more uniform, especially between 500Hz and 2000Hz.

Comparison of spin with highlighted areas in which the F328Be seems to under-perform vs the F226Be:

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And a comparison of normalised horizontal polar response, showing the F226Be to be better controlled in the upper midrange:

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I'm not saying here that the F226Be is clearly a better speaker. These two obviously have more similarities than differences. But what I am saying is that, low-end distortion and perhaps smoothness of PIR aside, the F226Be appears overall to slightly outperform its larger sibling.

(I should add the caveat that no doubt the accuracy of Amir's F328Be measurements are slightly higher owing to his equipment. So admittedly it may not make sense to go down quite as deep into the weeds as I have here.)
 

richard12511

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That's not the case with subs either.

The other thing with subs is too much bass. When watching movies I am game for that. But with music it can get too much with some music, and not with others. Hooked up a sub to our living room TV system and had to disconnect it after a few hours since the commercials had the most bass!

Not saying don't use a sub but you are in for a lot of work to get them to work well.
You can always turn down the bass?
 

richard12511

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It's funny how new audiophiles come into this hobby dreaming of subwoofers.

And once we're in the hobby for a bit we dream of simply not needing them. :)
I’m more the opposite. I came into this hobby wrongly believing that 2.0 was optimal for music. Subs were for HT, or at least that’s what everyone said back then. It took me years to realize that 2.0 can never compete(in terms of fidelity) with 4 well placed and time aligned subs. If the bass is too loud, you can always turn it down *shrug*.

There’s a reason Floyd Toole says that 2-4 subs are required for true high fidelity playback, even if you own Salon2s(as he does). I’ll side with Floyd Toole on this one ;).
 
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mrmoizy

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Bravo Amir, congrats on the site's growth and success. And thank you so much for providing a much needed infusion of transparency into an industry shrouded in smoke and mirrors. Love to see good engineering and design emerge as the cream of the crop.
 

BYRTT

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.....I'll try to do some more comparison, but I expect @BYRTT will save us all some time and use our datasets to provide some comparison gifs. :D ;)

Comparisons :p thanks all the pre phase hard work its a pleasure read published material from you and Amir ;) for that low end reach it looks your third party data is general less hot down there or whatever..

Revel F226Be Erin analyze verse manufacture side by side & overlaid..

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Erin's analyze of Revel F226Be verse Amir's analyze of Revel F328Be side by side & overlaid..

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