Big monitors vs Small monitors + a sub

[TimVG]

KH80 is too small, even with a sub, for use at 1,5m. Despite the impressive SPL capabilities and distortion numbers for such a small speaker, they don't reflect things like port and mechanical noise which do come into play at a certain point. There is only so much a 4" woofer can do.

Genelec 8030C or Neumann KH120 would be better suited imo (+ sub).

 

[sfdoddsy]

I read somewhere here that the Neumann KH80 sound small, so I'm worried about going 5 inch vs 6.5 or 8 inch.

There is no such thing as an accurate speaker sounding ‘small’ versus ‘large’ if operated within their limits.

The KH80 will sound smaller than, say, the KH120 when run full range at volume.

This is simply because it can’t go as deep, or as loud.

However, if you crossed both speakers to sub at 80hz, or even better to stereo subs at 120hz, there is no logical reason for either to sound bigger or smaller.

Theoretically, the KH80 would sound better because the smaller woofer and DSP would help dispersion

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I think it really depends on listening distance and volume. Personally i´ve never experienced any port noise with the KH80 and i never managed to activate the limiter, but i know the KH80 only from close distance use and very moderate SPL.
But if there´s any concern about the limits of the KH80 the 120+750 is indeed a great package, i think. I have all of them in my household (80, 120, 310, 750) but never really compared them systematically out of practical reasons.

 

[Pearljam5000]

So for example, if a 5 inch monitor let's say the KH120 and this focal play at the same volume, they will sound as big?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I think it really depends on listening distance and volume. Personally i´ve never experienced any port noise with the KH80 and i never managed to activate the limiter, but i know the KH80 only from close distance use and very moderate SPL.
But if there´s any concern about the limits of the KH80 the 120+750 is indeed a great package, i think. I have all of them in my household (80, 120, 310, 750) but never really compared them systematically out of practical reasons.

How similar sounding will the KH 120+ KH750 be to the KH310?

 

[andreasmaaan]

So for example, if a 5 inch monitor let's say the KH120 and this focal play at the same volume, they will sound as big?

Assuming the smaller is not pushed to the point where it is objectionably distorting, the main difference between larger speakers and smaller speakers with a sub will be in terms of off-axis dispersion. The larger speaker will tend to have narrower directivity in the midrange as a result of its larger baffle and (probably) larger and more numerous mid-bass driver(s). These differences are most likely to be significant in terms of the spectrum of the front wall bounce and the floor bounce, although spectrum effects will be present in the other early reflections, too.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

How similar sounding will the KH 120+ KH750 be to the KH310?

You mean KH310 without a sub? I´d expect 120 + 750 to have much better bass in a small room. Not only deeper but also more smooth in the most important areas. It also will be easier to find good positions. KH310 are better in the midrange than 120. How much i can´t really say because i´v never compared them directly. This difference will be much more subtle than the expected differences in bass.

If you chose the KH310 i think you will have a quite hard time to carve out their advantages and i expect you will have to add a subwoofer sooner or later. Also you have to figure out how to add room eq and if you decide to add a 750 later, the former DSP will be obsolete. A 310+750-combo is very good, though (i like to think it´s "high end", because i have it...).

If you choose 120 + 750 in the first place you will have a very good system with DSP/EQ from start. The only disadvantage is that it´s more expensive to upgrade later since you would have to sell the 120 if you decide to use 310 later.

PS: Tonally all of the Neumann-speakers are very similar, so the differences between 80, 120, 310 and 420 a relatively small, except SPL and bass.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Thanks a lot
What about the highs? Do they have the same tweeter?
In general could you say that in a blind test you will know if the KH120 or the KH310 is playing?
I guess what I'm basically asking is the KH310 worth the extra 1000€ over the KH750+ KH120?

 

[TimVG]

I guess what I'm basically asking is the KH310 worth the extra 1000€ over the KH750+ KH120?

Not at 1 to 1,5m listening distance, imo.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Same tweeter in all models. I´d say i think i could tell them apart, but i don´t know for sure of course.

My opinion is that the advantages of 120 + 750 over 310 (w/o sub) overweigh the advantages of 310 (w/o sub) over 120 (w/o sub) in your use case.

 

[fmessier6]

These are basically my options right now
I could probably stretch the budget for the KH310 but without a sub, only if it's a major step up over the other options.
View attachment 91618

So one year ago you could get 2 KH310 for less than €3000? What did I miss?

The KH750 is €1400, and that's the lowest price I found. I probably chose the wrong year to purchase Neumann speakers, apparently.

 

[Pearljam5000]

So one year ago you could get 2 KH310 for less than €3000? What did I miss?

The KH750 is €1400, and that's the lowest price I found. I probably chose the wrong year to purchase Neumann speakers, apparently.

The price was lower then, but it's a price without VAT

 

[Pattern]

There is no such thing as an accurate speaker sounding ‘small’ versus ‘large’ if operated within their limits.

The KH80 will sound smaller than, say, the KH120 when run full range at volume.

This is simply because it can’t go as deep, or as loud.

However, if you crossed both speakers to sub at 80hz, or even better to stereo subs at 120hz, there is no logical reason for either to sound bigger or smaller.

Theoretically, the KH80 would sound better because the smaller woofer and DSP would help dispersion

stereo subs with a higher crossover are fabulous, just keep them physically close to the mains and if possible use a MiniDSP and Dirac for integration. perhaps not as even throughout the room as a "Swarm" or dual/quad mono subs but if you goal is 2 channel with a lot of headroom and your mains are small this method will make them sound like capable floor standers in my experience.

 

[fmessier6]

The price was lower then, but it's a price without VAT

Thank you!