Worth getting a USB DAC for laptop if I only listen to internet radio?

[Noah Katz]

I'm sure this has been asked already, but I've googled for a half hour w/o finding an answer.

My HK Soundsticks have gotten flaky so I'm going to replace with better speakers (I hope, the Soundsticks sound pretty darn good), amps, and subwoofer.

If I just listen to internet radio (mp3 I think), will I get an appreciable improvement in sound quality over my laptops 3.5mm analog output?

Noise isn't a problem now, perhaps because I've lost a lot of high freq hearing.

So the improvements would need to be in the areas of general cleanness and clarity.

 

[Cahudson42]

Hard to say without knowing your mobo details..

Might just be simplest to spend $9 for the Apple Dongle, and see.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K25P3N1/

You may need to add a USB-C to full-size adapter if your PC does not have a USB-C port.

Also, while it could have been cockpit error on my part, I could never get it to work on Win 7. Only Win 10.

 

[Noah Katz]

Thanks, but not sure what the jack adapter would accomplish.

Lenovo W530 motherboard:

Specification
Socket Type: PGA989
FSB / HT: GHz
Graphics Card Type: Dedicated
CPU Type: Intel
Model Number: W530
Application: Laptop
Package: Yes
Chipset Manufacturer: Intel
100% working : Yes
Fully tested before shipping: Yes
Brand Name: Lenovo laptop motherboard
With CPU: No
Form Factor: ATX
Hard Drive Interface: SATA
Lenovo motherboard condition: Refurbished
Memory channel: Double
Memory Type: DDR3
Lenovo motherboard Status: Stock,Used
Supports Display Output: Yes
Ports: VGA,HDMI,USB 3.0

https://www.empowerlaptop.com/p/lenovo-w530-motherboard/

 

[L5730]

Our old Acer Aspire netbook had a working but not great audio output. A cheap USB DAC should be an improvement in body, volume*, channel separation and general fidelity. However it depends on the speakers/headphones you intend to use as to how much you'll notice.

Internet radio varies, but is usually around 128kbps mp3 or slightly better technical fidelity AAC, and well, it's radio so will have been processed in terms of multiband dynamics and limiting anyway.

So, yeah, there is a limit to how good it's going to get because of the source audio, but laptop DACs are a bit on the cheap and just functional and there are improvements to be had. I wouldn't look to something like a Topping E30 or even D10s for this particular purpose as they are overkill.
One of the USB dongle DACs should be fine.

*most DACs output 2v RMS, which maybe more than what is offered by the internal, and thus more volume.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks, but not sure what the jack adapter would accomplish.

Your laptop's inbuilt DAC may already be perfectly fine, but you can't know this for certain. However, the measurements of that Apple dongle that Amir took enable us to be very confident that it does not produce any audible noise or distortion. So think of it basically as a guarantee.

 

[Noah Katz]

Thanks for pointing me to the dongle variety.

I've settled on this one, which from what I've seen so far is unusual in that it lets you use the computer's volume controls.

https://hifimediy.com/product/sabre-dac-uae23/

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thanks for pointing me to the dongle variety.

I've settled on this one, which from what I've seen so far is unusual in that it lets you use the computer's volume controls.

https://hifimediy.com/product/sabre-dac-uae23/

Oooh, I don't know you should go with that company. Amir measured their more expensive 9038 DAC and it was a complete disaster...

EDIT: also, when they say on the product page "Volume Level is controlled by the normal volume control keys on your computer" all they mean is that there is no volume control on the dongle. The same is true of the Apple dongle which was previously recommended and which has proven to perform superlatively.

 

[Noah Katz]

Hmm, thanks for the heads-up.

My laptop has only USB A, but I assume I can just use an adapter.

Re volume control, are you saying that with the Apple dongle I'll still be able to use the computer's controls?

Because I've looked at least a dozen of the larger, more expensive USB DAC's in a box, and only the ones with a volume control knob allow that.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Hmm, thanks for the heads-up.

My laptop has only USB A, but I assume I can just use an adapter.

Re volume control, are you saying that with the Apple dongle I'll still be able to use the computer's controls?

Because I've looked at least a dozen of the larger, more expensive USB DAC's in a box, and only the ones with a volume control knob allow that.

Yeh exactly. I have the Apple dongle and volume is controlled using the Windows volume control. Just be sure to set the driver to one of the 24bit settings through the Windows sound mixer:

If you don't have a USB-C connection on your PC, it works fine with a USB-A to USB-C apdaptor. However, if that seems a bit inconvenient, there are plenty of other USB-A dongles that perform just fine. I just recommended the Apple one because it has such an incredible price-performance ratio.

If you want to try a different one, I'd suggest getting one that Amir (or someone else) has measured (this would unfortunately involve trawling through the forum though). You'd need to look at this graph and then work out which are dongles, I guess by searching for each review using the forum search function:

I get the feeling the graph is self-explanatory to you? But let us know if you need help interpreting it.

Personally I'd stick to something Amir or someone else has measured. If you don't buy something that's been verified to perform well, you'll basically be in the same position you're in now, i.e. not knowing for sure that it's transparent or even that it performs better than your laptop soundcard.

 

[Noah Katz]

Great, thanks!

What's hard to grasp is how, given their price, these dongles can be much better quality than what's in the computer; has Amir measured any laptops and found them wanting?

I'd think it's the post-DAC analog circuitry that's more important than the DAC; do Amir's measurements include that?

I guess that's a dumb question, given that only the analog output is available.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Great, thanks!

What's hard to grasp is how, given their price, these dongles can be much better quality than what's in the computer; has Amir measured any laptops and found them wanting?

I'd think it's the post-DAC analog circuitry that's more important than the DAC; do Amir's measurements include that?

I guess that's a dumb question, given that only the analog output is available.

Yeh, as you concluded, the measurements always include the analogue output stage.

Re: the circuitry, there are loads of very cheap DAC chips and opamps on the market with varying levels of performance. Usually laptop soundcards aren't too terrible, but it's hard to say that because something costs $X it must be good or bad. The Apple dongle is particularly good for the price though.

Another thought: you could actually do a loopback measurement of your laptop soundcard. This would essentially tell you whether you have anything to be concerned about in the first place.

I think this would do it, although it's been a long time since I did anything like this and I can't 100% remember what I used now... But basically it should be possible to measure the frequency response, distortion etc of your inbuilt soundcard using software. If nothing's seriously amiss, I would stick with it.

 

[Cahudson42]

Spend $9 for the Apple Dongle. Listen. Go from there..

 

[Noah Katz]

OK, this turns out to be easy.

I ordered an adapter from ebay for $1.68 and can get the Apple dongle at Best Buy, and return it if I don't hear a difference.

Thanks!

 

[Cahudson42]

$1.68? Info? There are simple 'audio passthru' dongles. Different from Apple which includes a DAC.

Make sure you are comparing Apples to Apples..

 

[andreasmaaan]

$1.68? Info? There are simple 'audio passthru' dongles. Different from Apple which includes a DAC.

Make sure you are comparing Apples to Apples..

Haha well played

But it's simply a USB-A/USB-C adaptor so he can connect the Apple dongle to his USB-A only laptop.

 

[BDWoody]

I guess that's a dumb question, given that only the analog output is available.

Not a dumb question at all... There is a ton of intentional confusion around all of this stuff, and always better to check what you've heard against reality.

The apple dongle really is quite the little device, as has been pointed out to you. Transparency doesn't have to be expensive.

 

[Noah Katz]

Spend $9 for the Apple Dongle. Listen. Go from there..

You beat me to it, didn't see this before I posted.

 

[Noah Katz]

$1.68? Info? There are simple 'audio passthru' dongles. Different from Apple which includes a DAC.

Make sure you are comparing Apples to Apples..

For the A to C adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Type-C...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649