ErinsAudioCorner

[hardisj]

Hand delivered and set up by the bossman. Your doing alright m8. Looking forward to the review.

Probably more likely to make sure that they are set up "right". The last thing they would want is to have a customer not set them up appropriately, since I am talking in terms of both physical setup as well as understanding the GUI which is where you enter the front wall distance for the subwoofer loading as well as the EQ generation process for room correction via REW.

I'm not a nooB to audio but I am sure they are used to having customers who need assistance with learning the functionalities and moreso understanding how to take measurements using REW and then using the spatial average in conjunction with REW's auto-EQ feature.

Speaking of which, the newest SW update now allows one to auto load the REW filters in to the speakers, rather than manually typing them in to the (24) P-EQ slots of the speakers. Which makes setup time immensely shorter. And much, much easier for someone who isn't versed in room correction and/or REW.

That said, I am extensively familiar so I didn't need the assistance, but it was nice to have that one-on-one interaction for sure.

 

[Vini darko]

Probably more likely to make sure that they are set up "right". The last thing they would want is to have a customer not set them up appropriately, since I am talking in terms of both physical setup as well as understanding the GUI which is where you enter the front wall distance for the subwoofer loading as well as the EQ generation process for room correction via REW.

I'm not a nooB to audio but I am sure they are used to having customers who need assistance with learning the functionalities and moreso understanding how to take measurements using REW and then using the spatial average in conjunction with REW's auto-EQ feature.

Speaking of which, the newest SW update now allows one to auto load the REW filters in to the speakers, rather than manually typing them in to the (24) P-EQ slots of the speakers. Which makes setup time immensely shorter. And much, much easier for someone who isn't versed in room correction and/or REW.

That said, I am extensively familiar so I didn't need the assistance, but it was nice to have that one-on-one interaction for sure.

Oh I'd definitely have no idea what to do with all the gadgets on these. Would need assistance for sure. Discounting a commador 64 I've never owned a computer .

 

[hardisj]

Help needed.

The Dutch & Dutch 8c comes with AES digital input as well as XLR Analog inputs. I’d like to test the speakers with either input but none of my gear has these outputs. My gear is a Denon X400 receivers and Oppo BDP-103. Both with unbalanced analog out only (as well as spdif toslink).

Right now I am using a Hosa spdif-to-AES/EBU converter to convert the signal from my AppleTV (which is also converted from HDMI to spdif toslink). I control volume through the D&D web interface. It works, but I would like to use something … ‘better’… for my review.

External DACS and the like are foreign to me. I’m archaic in the world of hi-fi components. I’ve just simply relied on my AVR and external amps with AppleTv and Oppo sources. I have a USB drive chock full of lossless music or could use my Oppo for CD playing. I just need a way to get signal from those sources to the D&D’s reliably in both AES and balanced analog. And having a remote would be nice for volume control (the D&D has this, but via a web interface).


So, two questions:

• Do any of you guys happen to have something I could borrow for this setup for a month or two while I review the speakers?
• If that’s a no-go, what would be recommended for me to purchase? I’m on an extremely limited budget and since I would rarely use something like this I don’t want to get in to uber-audiophile range. Preferably Amazon where I could return it if I don't find additional use for it.

 

[MarsianC#]

Right now I am using a Hosa spdif-to-AES/EBU converter

Good enough? Keeping the ignal digital as long as possible seems to be the way to go.
http://audiobyte.net/products/hydra-z one of the few solutions with AES output. Aurora FreeDSP (I own one) will have a addon with AES In/Out. Maybe....
Unbalanced from AVR is fine to - no problems.

 

[samysound]

Help needed.

The Dutch & Dutch 8c comes with AES digital input as well as XLR Analog inputs. I’d like to test the speakers with either input but none of my gear has these outputs. My gear is a Denon X400 receivers and Oppo BDP-103. Both with unbalanced analog out only (as well as spdif optical).

Right now I am using a Hosa spdif-to-AES/EBU converter to convert the signal from my AppleTV (which is also converted from HDMI to spdif). I control volume through the D&D web interface. It works, but I would like to use something … ‘better’… for my review.

External DACS and the like are foreign to me. I’m archaic in the world of hi-fi components. I’ve just simply relied on my AVR and external amps with AppleTv and Oppo sources. I have a USB drive chock full of lossless music or could use my Oppo for CD playing. I just need a way to get signal from those sources to the D&D’s reliably in both AES and balanced analog. And having a remote would be nice for volume control (the D&D has this, but via a web interface).


So, two questions:

• Do any of you guys happen to have something I could borrow for this setup for a month or two while I review the speakers?
• If that’s a no-go, what would be recommended for me to purchase? I’m on an extremely limited budget and since I would rarely use something like this I don’t want to get in to uber-audiophile range. Preferably Amazon where I could return it if I don't find additional use for it.

Why not just use an impedance converter to go from spdif to aes?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...Ch1Y_wf3EAQYASABEgKxGPD_BwE&lsft=BI:514&smp=y

 

[hardisj]

Good enough? Keeping the ignal digital as long as possible seems to be the way to go.
http://audiobyte.net/products/hydra-z one of the few solutions with AES output. Aurora FreeDSP (I own one) will have a addon with AES In/Out. Maybe....
Unbalanced from AVR is fine to - no problems.

Yea, it's OK. Problem is, in order to get that signal, I have to go from my AppleTV to an HDMI-to-SPDIF (toslink) converter, and then convert the signal again from SPDIF-to-AES/EBU. I dunno... just seems kind of janky to run a very nice set of speakers off so many converted signals. Plus, I have no idea what the bitrate is capped at on these methods.

It leaves me without analog XLR outputs, though. I guess I just wanted something a bit 'nicer' than my old AVR for analog outputs. I have to go through multiple pieces to get signal and it's pretty weak. Plus, it's upstairs in my HT which means lugging it back and forth up and down the stairs for the review and when I want to watch a movie with the family. But, yea, I guess I'll just use it. The allure of a nice balanced output seemed enticing.

I'll keep using the setup as is with the optical out from my appleTV and see what I can set up in addition to that.

 

[hardisj]

Why not just use an impedance converter to go from spdif to aes?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/367655-REG/Canare_BCJXPTRB_BCJ_XP_TRB_75_Ohm_to.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4NWG5bTS7AIVIgnnCh1Y_wf3EAQYASABEgKxGPD_BwE&lsft=BI:514&smp=y

I should have clarified: the spdif is toslink. That's why I am using the Hosa converter to get spdif to AES.

 

[kaka89]

@hardisj I wonder how usable the Roon integration is in 8C, if it works then maybe LAN cable is all you need.

 

[MZKM]

Help needed.

The Dutch & Dutch 8c comes with AES digital input as well as XLR Analog inputs. I’d like to test the speakers with either input but none of my gear has these outputs. My gear is a Denon X400 receivers and Oppo BDP-103. Both with unbalanced analog out only (as well as spdif toslink).

Right now I am using a Hosa spdif-to-AES/EBU converter to convert the signal from my AppleTV (which is also converted from HDMI to spdif toslink). I control volume through the D&D web interface. It works, but I would like to use something … ‘better’… for my review.

External DACS and the like are foreign to me. I’m archaic in the world of hi-fi components. I’ve just simply relied on my AVR and external amps with AppleTv and Oppo sources. I have a USB drive chock full of lossless music or could use my Oppo for CD playing. I just need a way to get signal from those sources to the D&D’s reliably in both AES and balanced analog. And having a remote would be nice for volume control (the D&D has this, but via a web interface).


So, two questions:

• Do any of you guys happen to have something I could borrow for this setup for a month or two while I review the speakers?
• If that’s a no-go, what would be recommended for me to purchase? I’m on an extremely limited budget and since I would rarely use something like this I don’t want to get in to uber-audiophile range. Preferably Amazon where I could return it if I don't find additional use for it.

Yeah, that's tough. Geshelli has a balanced DAC for $180, but no remote or anything, and doesn't solve the AES issue.

 

[hardisj]

Alright. I'll stick with what I've got. If I have a change of heart, I'll post back.

@hardisj I wonder how usable the Roon integration is in 8C, if it works then maybe LAN cable is all you need.

It's not available yet. It's been in the works since the speakers' release. I was told it's still in works but it is possible it'll be updated while I have my pair.

Not that it matters... I don't even know what Roon is. Never used it. Hear all my audiophile friends talk about it. I told you guys, I'm archaic. Still rocking appleTV and an Oppo with USB drive.

 

[MZKM]

Alright. I'll stick with what I've got. If I have a change of heart, I'll post back.


It's not available yet. It's been in the works since the speakers' release. I was told it's still in works but it is possible it'll be updated while I have my pair.

Not that it matters... I don't even know what Roon is. Never used it. Hear all my audiophile friends talk about it. I told you guys, I'm archaic. Still rocking appleTV and an Oppo with USB drive.

It's a software that combines all your purchased music and all your streaming services. So all your available music is in 1 spot, it also has DSP capabilities. It also allows for multi-room streaming. However, it's expensive, as much as a streaming service.
Too rich for my blood.

 

[hardisj]

However, it's expensive, as much as a streaming service.
Too rich for my blood.

Yea, that's what I remember. I remember looking in to it and thinking "nope". Never looked past that.

 

[kaka89]

I think a Pi is a good investment because you can have any output you want, if you ever want to try it

An AES output (exclude Pi) is only 40 EUR

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-...terface-aes-ebu-for-raspberry-pi-p-13316.html

 

[MZKM]

Yea, that's what I remember. I remember looking in to it and thinking "nope". Never looked past that.

But they offer the deal of the century where they convert 6 years worth of payment into a lifetime subscription, just a measly $700 (it used to be more).
/s

 

[richard12511]

@hardisj I pulled my Genelecs and Revels out in to the main room to test those example tracks you posted, and I think I now better understand what you said. As expected, the Revel soundstage does extend out wider to the right of the speaker. This is made clear by closing my eyes and pointing to the outside edge of the image. However, with the Genelec, while the outside edge doesn't extend as far right as that of the Revel, the inside edge of the image is further away from the right speaker itself, which does make it more clear that the image is far right of the right speaker.

Like @thewas_ mentioned, it's very obvious now that you point it out. Unlike him, though, I'm not so sure I would have noticed it if you had not pointed it out.

I'm guessing the image the D&D creates is more similar to my Genelec, and probably even tighter. I'm also guessing that if you tested with the BMR(widest I believe that you've tested) you would hear something similar. That is, the outside edge of the BMR image is further to the right, but the inside edge is also further left, and thus it's less clear that the image itself is right of the speaker. Does that make sense?

Anyway, after listening to your examples, my hope is restored.

As I said, I'm seriously looking at this speaker, the 8351b and the 8361a for my next speaker purchase. One concern I have with this speaker (in comparison to the other 2) is its lack of output. The website lists max output of 106dB from 35Hz up, which is quite low. Since I would be crossing to subs around 100Hz, I wonder how much more output that would give me. Would you mind testing in your room with the speaker crossed to subs to see what kind of output you can get at your listening position? Doesn't have to be that involved. Maybe just a few songs, checking with an spl meter to see how high you can get before the limiters start kicking in.

 

[hardisj]

Would you mind testing in your room with the speaker crossed to subs to see what kind of output you can get at your listening position? Doesn't have to be that involved. Maybe just a few songs, checking with an spl meter to see how high you can get before the limiters start kicking in.

I'll try to remember to do this. I always test max SPL at the seated position (subjectively) to see what the speaker will do 'full range'. I do this in addition to the max SPL objective tests. I do the latter with a stimulus from both 20-20k and 80-20k. But I will try to remember to implement a crossover filter on them when I do my listening tests just to see if that helps the output (I assume it will).

 

[somebodyelse]

Good enough? Keeping the ignal digital as long as possible seems to be the way to go.
http://audiobyte.net/products/hydra-z one of the few solutions with AES output. Aurora FreeDSP (I own one) will have a addon with AES In/Out. Maybe....
Unbalanced from AVR is fine to - no problems.

Definitely OT, but do you have any measurements for the Aurora's ADC/DAC performance?

 

[MarsianC#]

Nope....
But with AK4458 and "ok" design i would guess it will be in the same ballpark as Denon's AVRs. It will depend on power supply, gain structure and addon/hardware filters.

But I will try to remember to implement a crossover filter on them when I do my listening tests just to see if that helps the output (I assume it will).

I'd love to see that! Dual 8" in CB is not much...

 

[Martijn Mensink]

Ah, I'm jealous, I think about these a lot! Also jealous that you got the white colorway.

Really looking forward to your data and impressions! I can't remember at the moment, but I think one vent was partially covered during vertical measurements? You can ask @Martijn Mensink but I'm sure you'll figure it out!

Hi Napier. I'm also really looking forward to Erin's measurements! The work he's done over the last couple of months is very impressive. You're right: both vents are required for the cardioid to properly form. We recommend about a foot of space for it to 'breathe'. Blocking one of the vents will primarily affect frequencies below approximately 600 Hz. Therefore you'll still be able to see any lobing at the crossover, but the response at lower frequencies will be affected.

 

[weasels]

@hardisj

As I said, I'm seriously looking at this speaker, the 8351b and the 8361a for my next speaker purchase. One concern I have with this speaker (in comparison to the other 2) is its lack of output. The website lists max output of 106dB from 35Hz up, which is quite low. Since I would be crossing to subs around 100Hz, I wonder how much more output that would give me. Would you mind testing in your room with the speaker crossed to subs to see what kind of output you can get at your listening position? Doesn't have to be that involved. Maybe just a few songs, checking with an spl meter to see how high you can get before the limiters start kicking in.

May I ask in what application 106db is considered low? That's definitely loud enough to damage hearing, no?