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Monolith 10 vs. Hsu VTF-2 MK5 vs. Rythmik LV12F

kevindd992002

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I have a small (93 sqft.) living room that extends to the kitchen and I'm planning on building my very first HTS. I'm starting off with a 5.1 system and eventually expanding to a 7.1.2. My AVR of choice is either the Denon X3600H or X3700H and will be using Infinity speakers for LCR and surround.

Which between the 3 subs in the title is the most recommended? I know the Monolith has a 10" driver and the other two have 12" drivers but all of them are within my budget. If the Monolith is enough for the size of my room, I would not think twice in going with it as I can save money with it. But since I'm not really well-versed in this field yet, I wanted to pick your brains on this topic.

Thanks.
 

bladerunner6

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You should probably also look at the SVS 1000 series. $500 and free return.
 

Shazb0t

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Hsu VTF-2 MK5 would be my pick as the most capable out of those three. The ability to modify Q and tune for max extension or volume is pretty awesome.
 

sweetchaos

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I have a small (93 sqft.) living room that extends to the kitchen
We'll need to know the full dimensions (in ft^3 not ft^2) of the room size (which includes your kitchen) to give a recommendation on the sub. Reason being...Low frequency waves will travel something like 30 ft and back for one wavelength, so everything in the room (and in your kitchen) will have bass (some places more than others, of course). Think of your room as everything that's enclosed by doors.
 

sweetchaos

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Are you talking about Monolith Monolith 10 sealed or ported?
If ported, Erin from Erins Audio Corner will be measuring it *soon*. See his previously measured budget subs.

I'm assuming you're in US. Your budget seems to be $500usd (plus/minus 10%), right?
Does ported vs sealed matter to you? In other words...Does size of subwoofer matter to you?

How loud do you typically listen to below the reference level on your receiver? -10dB or -20dB which is typical or other?
Are you in an apartment, and have stricter listening level requirements?

How do you feel about 2 subwoofers? Can your room accommodate 2 subs? Your significant other is okay with 2 subs?
We can split your budget into 2 and get dual subs, for better seat-to-seat consistency and to remove nulls in the frequency response.

Have you considered spending $500usd now and later doing the same for a 2nd sub in the future? In other words, are you leaving room for future upgrades?

Subs contribute to about 33% of your overall experience of home theater, besides the sound and picture quality.
 
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kevindd992002

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You should probably also look at the SVS 1000 series. $500 and free return.

Are the SVS 1000 series even better than these three?

We'll need to know the full dimensions (in ft^3 not ft^2) of the room size (which includes your kitchen) to give a recommendation on the sub. Reason being...Low frequency waves will travel something like 30 ft and back for one wavelength, so everything in the room (and in your kitchen) will have bass (some places more than others, of course). Think of your room as everything that's enclosed by doors.

Here's a snippet of the condo floor plan where I live:

https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/im...um.com/attachments/1601220265084-png.3040942/

The HTS will be installed on the top part in that pic, the one enclosed in yellow highlights. TV is on the far left wall and a three-seat sofa will be placed near the far right wall (in front of the bathroom door). I won't be at my condo for a while because of the pandemic but I'm trying to ask the developer what the height of the living room is. I will post back when I have the information. But if I was to guess, I'd say that the height is around the standard 8'.

Are you talking about Monolith Monolith 10 sealed or ported?
If ported, Erin from Erins Audio Corner will be measuring it *soon*. See his previously measured budget subs.

I'm assuming you're in US. Your budget seems to be $500usd (plus/minus 10%), right?
Does ported vs sealed matter to you? In other words...Does size of subwoofer matter to you?

How loud do you typically listen to below the reference level on your receiver? -10dB or -20dB which is typical or other?
Are you in an apartment, and have stricter listening level requirements?

How do you feel about 2 subwoofers? Can your room accommodate 2 subs? Your significant other is okay with 2 subs?
We can split your budget into 2 and get dual subs, for better seat-to-seat consistency and to remove nulls in the frequency response.

Have you considered spending $500usd now and later doing the same for a 2nd sub in the future? In other words, are you leaving room for future upgrades?

Subs contribute to about 33% of your overall experience of home theater, besides the sound and picture quality.

I did not know that there's a ported and a sealed version for the Monolith 10. Thanks for pointing that you.

I'm not from the US but that doesn't matter. I will source all my stuff from the US and I'm used to doing that. And yes, you are right on the budget front. I have to be honest as this is my first time building an HTS so I'm not even sure if I need a ported or just a sealed sub. I know ported seems to be better because you can simply seal it with the provided foam, right? So more flexibility in that regards. The size of the subwoofer doesn't matter as much as it can fit my living room area anyway. Is there anything I should know about sizes though?

My Dad is a home theater enthusiast and when I watch in his home theater in their home, I specifically listen at -5dB on his Marantz AV-8805 but that's without any listening level requirements. I, myself, live in a condo so I have neighbors to consider. With that said, I can listen with a lower master volume overall but I'm not sure I can give a certain dB value for that level as I have not tested anything in my place yet.

I also posted here and the topic about single vs. double sub came up. It has come to my attention that with my narrow main listening position (area is 8'7" wide and sofa is juts a 5'3" three-seater sofa that will be placed in the center) I can go away with just one sub. What is your take on this? Since I'm just starting out, my plan is to use one sub for now but I always leave room for future upgrades, of course. But because of the limited space, I don't think two subs is ideal for me.
 

sweetchaos

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Let's begin...

Choosing a subwoofer based on the size of the room:
If I did my math right, the room we're counting is the yellow box (9.58'x8.58'), along with the "Living/Dining" zone and Kitchen zone" (combined is 17.4'x9.75'). Im excluding bathroom, since the door will be closed. Adding the 2 is 251.8 ft^2. Then multiplying by 8' ceiling, we get 2,014 ft^3. This is classified as a "Medium" room, by AH.
What does the room size have to do with choosing a sub? It means that if you choose a subwoofer that's capable of hitting certain dB at certain frequencies, that subwoofer is capable of playing at reference level for a given size room. Your room is "Medium", but if you choose a subwoofer that's rated for a "Small room", your experience will be lacking, as the subwoofer isn't capable of hitting the reference level you need for a pleasant experience. If you keep turning up the volume, your subwoofer will simply run out of steam (so to say) and be overwhelmed by the room and won't produce enough SPL. It will feel like the subwoofer is just *coughing*, without actually hitting you in the chest, so to speak. On the other hand, if you choose a subwoofer that's rated to work in a "Large" or "Extreme" room, then your subwoofer is capable of playing at reference levels for your "Medium room", but in addition it has more headroom than needed for your room. At this point, your subwoofer will have no problems hitting reference level SPL without any distortion and have plenty of reserve dB headroom...but you've simply overspent and have more subwoofer than needed.

Bragging rights:
Bragging rights come into play as well, as people get subwoofers that are "too capable" for their rooms just to brag to their friends. I know I want a JTR Captivator 4000ULF (which costs $3700usd/each), and it's rated as the highest capable subwoofer on data-bass.com currently, capable of hitting 108dB at 10hz (measured with CEA2010 standard). But let's be real here, that subwoofer is WAY too capable for an "Extreme room." That subwoofer will crush an "Extreme" room's reference level and still have plenty in the headroom. So I completely understand the rational of choosing a subwoofer simply for bragging rights. To each his own.

Choosing a ported or sealed subwoofer:
Typically, ported subwoofers can hit higher SPL in lower frequencies than sealed subwoofers, but at the cost of a large enclosure/cabinet. Most home theater installations just get the ported subwoofers for maximum SPL at the lowest frequencies. But frequently, large subwoofers aren't preferred in smaller spaces, so sealed subwoofers are a good choice.

Flexibility of plugging ports on a ported sub:
Yes, with ported subs, you have that flexibility.
I have the HSU VTF-3 MK5, ported sub.
Here's 2 ports open (notice how much dB extension I'm getting all the way to 20hz, and then it's dropping):
1601361633164.png
Here's 2 ports sealed with foam (I'm losing some output in the 20hz and 50hz region, but the sub is now extending lower towards 15hz without suddenly dropping off like earlier):
1601361714851.png
Another difference is with the ports open, I can hear more port noise/chuffing. So if I seal the ports, I won't hear that noise anymore.

How to know whether you need a second subwoofer?
The easiest way, is to measure. Get a measurement microphone (Dayton Audio UMM-6 or MiniDSP UMIK-1) and REW, and just do frequency sweeps to figure out your subwoofer's performance in your room, at your sitting position. Your sofa is a 3 seater. Well, position the subwoofer to optimize for the "sweetspot" seat while taking measurements. Then take measurements in other 2 seats. Are you experiencing frequency nulls/dips in the 2nd/3rd spot? If not, then you're okay with just 1 subwoofer. But if you want seat to seat consistency, and you've measured multiple subwoofer placements and you're still having nulls at one of your listening positions, then you need a 2nd sub.

Do you need a ported or sealed sub?
Your listening area is not that large, so a sealed subwoofer will make more sense, IMO. Every person has their own preference on the size of subwoofers allowed in a given room. Only you can make that final call.

Since I'm just starting out, my plan is to use one sub for now but I always leave room for future upgrades
- Spend whatever you wanted to spend right now, but think about adding another subwoofer of the same quality/size in the future for the best experience.

I haven't gotten to the recommendations part.
 
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kevindd992002

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Great! Thanks for taking time to write a detailed response. A couple of questions/concerns:

1. So even though my HTS space is pretty small and the fact that it extends to the kitchen and is effectively a "medium"-sized area, I cannot choose a sub that's for a small-sized area because the SPL basically ecompasses the whole surrounding area and is kinda "distributed" to the whole area?

2. For subwoofer size, when you say larger subs are not recommend for smaller spaces are you mainly talking about aesthetics? If that's not too much of a concern to me, would getting a ported sub the way to go? I mean, let's just take the Monolith 10 as an example. Both ported and sealed have the same price and the only difference is their size. Is it safe to say that the port will work better than the sealed one at lower frequencies?

3. Yes, I can definitely consider adding a second sub in the future but for now I want to have a good single sub setup too. What are your recommendations? Seeing that you use the Hsu VTF-3 yourself, is the Hsu VTF-2 MK5 the best choice for me? For the past few days I've been asking people around, it does seem to be the best pick around.
 

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My two cents:

1) I would pick the Rythmik, the servo design helps to limit distortion in the low frequencies. Second would be HSU, they represent a better value to me than SVS.

2) You cannot have too large of a subwoofer. A larger than needed subwoofer just leaves you with extra headroom that you don't use, but also generally lower distortion at your listening levels. You can have too little subwoofer, where you are pushing it to or beyond its capability and getting dynamic compression and high distortion limits.

3) Two subwoofers provide signification benefits aside from output. The biggest benefit is the ability to smooth the response as the listening position (and across a larger range of listening positions). If you measure your room, you will find that you likely have 15-20 db peaks and dips in the bass range. Two subs properly placed can massively decrease these fluctuations. When you do, you will get much tighter and tuneful sounding bass. Buying one now with the intent of buying a second later works fine (took me three years to get the second in place).

4) Vented versus sealed subwoofers is what tradeoffs you want to live with. There are some general rules, but at the end of the day, it is really about how well the manufacture implements the design.

A sealed subwoofer will generally be smaller, have lower group delay, and have a smooth 12db per octave roll off below its FC (system resonance). Many manufactures use equalization to get sealed subwoofers to perform flat down to 20-30hz and then let them roll off below that. It takes additional power, but nowdays power is cheap. Sealed subwoofers are often easier to integrate with the main speakers as they have less phase change.

A vented subwoofer is more efficient, 3db at the tuning frequency, which is the equivalent of doubling power. Vented subwoofers will maintain a flat frequency lower than a sealed subwoofer, then drop at 24db an octave below their tuned frequency. Because a vented subwoofer becomes unloaded below its tuned frequency (the backwave is no longer providing resistance to the woofer) they must use a high pass filter to prevent them from being overdriven below their tuned frequency. Vented will normally have lower distortion at and above its tuned frequency for the same output as its sealed counterpart.

5) You may want to consider a pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10s, which will get you a pair of good performing subwoofers for $800. If you are really trying to minimize size, take a good look at the Rythmik L12.
 

sweetchaos

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Great! Thanks for taking time to write a detailed response. A couple of questions/concerns:

1. So even though my HTS space is pretty small and the fact that it extends to the kitchen and is effectively a "medium"-sized area, I cannot choose a sub that's for a small-sized area because the SPL basically ecompasses the whole surrounding area and is kinda "distributed" to the whole area?

2. For subwoofer size, when you say larger subs are not recommend for smaller spaces are you mainly talking about aesthetics? If that's not too much of a concern to me, would getting a ported sub the way to go? I mean, let's just take the Monolith 10 as an example. Both ported and sealed have the same price and the only difference is their size. Is it safe to say that the port will work better than the sealed one at lower frequencies?

3. Yes, I can definitely consider adding a second sub in the future but for now I want to have a good single sub setup too. What are your recommendations? Seeing that you use the Hsu VTF-3 yourself, is the Hsu VTF-2 MK5 the best choice for me? For the past few days I've been asking people around, it does seem to be the best pick around.
1. Yes, since the room is open, as the bass frequencies will travel back and forth everywhere enclosed by walls. If theoretically, you've put a drywall and enclosed your listening area, then that room will now become a "Small" room. Imagine going into a commercial theater system with dozens of rows of seating, in an enclosed environment, and putting one subwoofer in that space. Will you hear bass frequencies in the room? Yes, but only for certain spots, but overall the room will encompass the small subwoofer and you won't have a pleasant experience. There's a reason commercial theaters use dozens of subwoofers behind acoustically transparent screens.

2. Yes, I'm thinking about both the space it takes up on the floor as well as the overall size of the subwoofer. If the subwoofer is too large (in overall shape), then it will look odd and out of place. If you get comments like "what is that big box doing in this small space?" then you've chosen a subwoofer that's too large for the space. Sealed subwoofers are a better fit in that case, due to their compact dimensions.

Is it safe to say that the port will work better than the sealed one at lower frequencies?
Yes, CDMC explained it nicely.
 

sweetchaos

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What are your recommendations?
I've looked at 3 subwoofer review sites (data-bass.com, audioholics.com and wirecutter.com), then I combined their data and created an equivalent room size rating (based on audioholics.com room rank).

Here's the results from the mentioned subwoofers so far:

PORTED:
- Hsu VTF-2 MK5. Ported. (from your list). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Large" rooms.
- Rythmik LV12F. Ported. (from your list). No CEA2010 data available that I could find.
- Monoprice 10" Ported Monolith (from your list). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Large" rooms.
- SVS PB-1000. Ported. (from a member above). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Large" rooms.

SEALED:
- Monoprice 10" Sealed Monolith (from your list). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.
- SVS SB-1000. Sealed. (from a member above). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.
- RSL Speedwoofer 10s. Sealed (from a member above). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.
- Rythmik L12. Sealed. (from a member above) No CEA2010 data available that I could find.

Not mentioned:
We have data on Rythmik F12 (also sealed but for $980, aka +75% cost than Rythmik L12). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.

So while I don't have the data on 2 subwoofers from the list of mentioned, you can speculate to their performance if needed.

As you can see, even sealed subwoofers above will work for your room size.

I do think a sealed subwoofer is your best choice b/c of 2 reasons:
1. given the size of your listening area
2. the fact that this is an apartment (not a house), so playing the lowest frequencies (that ported subs can hit) isn't the best choice, given you have neighbors to worry about.

Looking at the sealed options above, if I had to pick right now, I wouldnt choose Monoprice or SVS, I would pick either RSL Speedwoofer 10s (for it's known performance and really good price of $400usd) or Rythmik L12 (for it's reliability in the "servo design" as CDMC mentioned, for a slightly costlier sub of $559usd, but still within your budget).

Otherwise, if you still don't mind the larger ported subs and you want to have more "headroom", then you have the info to decide.

Cheers! :D
 
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CDMC

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I've looked at 3 subwoofer review sites (data-bass.com, audioholics.com and wirecutter.com), then I combined their data and created an equivalent room size rating (based on audioholics.com room rank).

Here's the results from the mentioned subwoofers so far:

PORTED:
- Hsu VTF-2 MK5. Ported. (from your list). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Large" rooms.
- Rythmik LV12F. Ported. (from your list). No CEA2010 data available that I could find.
- Monoprice 10" Ported Monolith (from your list). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Large" rooms.
- SVS PB-1000. Ported. (from a member above). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Large" rooms.

SEALED:
- Monoprice 10" Sealed Monolith (from your list). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.
- SVS SB-1000. Sealed. (from a member above). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.
- RSL Speedwoofer 10s. Sealed (from a member above). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.
- Rythmik L12. Sealed. (from a member above) No CEA2010 data available that I could find.

Not mentioned:
We have data on Rythmik F12 (also sealed but for $980, aka +75% cost than Rythmik L12). CEA2010 data from wirecutter. Result? This sub will work "Medium" rooms.

So while I don't have the data on 2 subwoofers from the list of mentioned, you can speculate to their performance if needed.

As you can see, even sealed subwoofers above will work for your room size.

I do think a sealed subwoofer is your best choice b/c of 2 reasons:
1. given the size of your listening area
2. the fact that this is an apartment (not a house), so playing the lowest frequencies (that ported subs can hit) isn't the best choice, given you have neighbors to worry about.

Looking at the sealed options above, if I had to pick right now, I wouldnt choose Monoprice or SVS, I would pick either RSL Speedwoofer 10s (for it's known performance and really good price of $400usd) or Rythmik L12 (for it's reliability in the "servo design" as CDMC mentioned, for a slightly costlier sub of $559usd, but still within your budget).

Otherwise, if you still don't mind the larger ported subs and you want to have more "headroom", then you have the info to decide.

Cheers! :D

The good thing is Rythmik has a comparison of how their subs measure up at 20hz. The L12 has 1 db less than the F12. The LV12F 2.5 db more. That is spot on with the expected efficiency increase we expect from a vented v sealed driver.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/
 
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kevindd992002

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5) You may want to consider a pair of RSL Speedwoofer 10s, which will get you a pair of good performing subwoofers for $800. If you are really trying to minimize size, take a good look at the Rythmik L12.

Would it hurt anything if I get one RSL Speedwoofer 10s now and getting another a few years later as compared to getting a single Rythmik L12 for now? In terms of performance, is the Rythmik better than the RSL?

Looking at the sealed options above, if I had to pick right now, I wouldnt choose Monoprice or SVS, I would pick either RSL Speedwoofer 10s (for it's known performance and really good price of $400usd) or Rythmik L12 (for it's reliability in the "servo design" as CDMC mentioned, for a slightly costlier sub of $559usd, but still within your budget).

Otherwise, if you still don't mind the larger ported subs and you want to have more "headroom", then you have the info to decide.

Cheers! :D

Thanks for doing the legwork :) It looks like I'm convinced to go with a sealed sub for now. Since I'm a first-timer, it would help to have less flexibility to start with. I know I'll be bombarded with lots and lots of information about home theaters along the way. And you have a good point about my neighbors. I wouldn't want anyone reporting me to the property management office :)

As someone that purchased a Rythmik L12 for a medium sized room last week, I feel that I have to butt in and say that I am loving it. I replaced a REL T/7i with it and I am realizing what a pathetic mistake that sub was. The L12 is perfect for my needs. It tucks away nicely and provides me with the bass I need as a person who listens to music first. I can't wait to get a second one in the future.

Did you have any other choices when you were choosing which one to buy? What made you decide to get the Rythmik L12 instead of the others?
 

sweetchaos

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Haha, I totally blanked on the fact that Amir measured Rythmik L12. While he didn't do the CEA2010A measurements, he did provide us with a CEA2034 (frequency response) and frequency-distortion graph (important to understand the "servo" sub technology).

Like I said, since we don't have CEA2010A data on Rythmik L12, you can't directly compare it to RSL Speedwoofer 10s, other than to say they both work for a medium-sized room (based on our most educated guess about Rythmik L12's performance).

I can say that your end game for this room should certainly be either:
- 2 of Rythmik L12
- 2 of RSL Speedwoofer 10s

The only question is whether you're willing to spend $800 or $1118 (+40% cost) on your endgame.
 
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kevindd992002

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By the way, the RSL Speedwoofer 10s is a ported sub (it was listed as a sealed sub in the list in your reply above).

How about this sub: https://emotiva.com/products/airmotiv-se12-subwoofer ? It has the same price as the RSL's but has a 12" driver instead of the 10" in the RSL's.

As for a sub being used for home theater vs. music, does sealed vs. vented matter in this aspect? Won't sealed subs be generally better for music?
 

sweetchaos

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Oops, oh yeah, it has a slotted port....it's not clear from the first look. Good catch.

We have CEA2010 data from Brent's site on Emotiva Airmotiv S12 ($699) (+75% more expensive than SE12 you linked) and it's ranking that it will work for "Medium" rooms. Without CEA2010 data, I can't say that the SE12 subwoofer is good or bad. My gut feel is that SE12 will work only for "Small" rooms, simply because it's much cheaper than S12.

I think it's just a matter of how low of a frequency do you want to play. Sealed subs will play music with no problems (since music doesnt go below 30hz much), but sealed subs won't hit all the lowest frequencies that movies have (some well-mastered movies go below 20hz).

When I'm playing movies (like Edge of Tomorrow) with my HSU ported sub, it can hit 17hz (+-2db window) so the whole house shakes, 2 floors up. And I'm not even hitting reference levels...maybe -15dB on the receiver. There should be a warning for capable subs like I have..."Use at your own risk of disturbing the neighbors." Haha.
 
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kevindd992002

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Yeah, I thought it was also sealed at first glance.

Yeah, it looks like the SE12 is a new subwoofer and doesn't have much data.

Since I'll be using the sub mainly for movies, I would like to be able to hit those low frequencies but with the problem of the neighbors like you mentioned. If I remember correctly, the Audyssey XT32 room correction of the Denon X3600H/X3700H can minimize this problem, right?? How does it do it though? Also, can we still hear the 17Hz - 19Hz frequency range or just "feel" the shakes?

Can the RSL's hit these lower frequencies? And would going with dual subs make the combo hit lower frequencies better? Would using wireless tx/rx from the receiver to the RSL subs not affect any quality at all?
 

sweetchaos

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RSL Speedwoofer 10s will hit 20hz cleanly, capable of playing at 101.5dB (measured at ground plane 1m PEAK dB, not RMS), according to Brent's CEA2010 data. He didn't test the lower frequencies, so we simply don't have the data to say whether it will or not. If you measure the subwoofer in your room, I have a feeling that it will play below 20hz, simply because of the boundary reinforcement of your walls will add to the subwoofer's frequency response and it will play lower than 20hz.

Below 20hz, it's hard for us to hear, but we'll feel the air displacement in the room. I know I do, as when I'm playing test tones below 20hz, I see sub's woofer moving back and forth and can feel the pressure on my body, without hearing anything.

Also, at lower frequencies, the subwoofer is transmitting lots of energy through the floor directly (instead of just through the air). So isolation (de-coupling the subwoofer) is definitely recommended. SVS Isolation feet are a great example of how to do so.

I don't have Denon, but all room correction software are doing a bunch of fancy math to rid of unnecessary peaks in the frequency response (which causes excessive bass), while trying to boost some frequency dips (to raise the bass to be more flat).

Yes, dual subwoofers is always the preferred solution to making bass much cleaner (as it flattens out the frequency peaks and adds to frequency dips). What really clicked for me about the benefits of dual subwoofer, is when I measured my frequency response of my sub and found huge frequency dips...and no matter where I moved the 1 subwoofer, the results weren't as clean as I would have liked. It's pure physics, as one subwoofer isn't capable of playing smoothly (without hitting frequency peaks and dips) in a room. Room correction can help flatten that out, but a better solution is to use a 2nd subwoofer first, and then room correction to EQ the final response. Your experience will be much better at the end.

Plus a 2nd sub, adds about ~3dB to the overall volume, meaning it can play louder than with just a single sub. Not that you probably need to play louder than with a single sub, but that gives your subwoofers more headroom overall.

Never tried a wireless tx/rx from receiver to subwoofer, but cables are so cheap, do you really need to? I would still A/B test with a wire, just to make sure the experience is good.
 
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Willem

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When I first added a subwoofer to my large main speakers I did not know what I know now. I bought an expensive sub, only to be disappointed by the woolly sound that I subsequently discovered was the product of room modes, even in a really large room (I had never heard of room modes). I could have bought four (four is even better than two) small subs for the price of that single expensive one. I added an ANtimode 8033 dsp room eq unit, and that helped a lot, but primarily in the main listening position. So a second sub is now high on my wish list (my wife will certainly not condone more, and that is fair enough given the size of the main speakers).
In your case, and if you can stretch your budget, I would go for two pretty small sealed subs. If you can, just get it done with - life is too interesting to brood on what you might add next year or the year after. I would opt for small ones because even though the space is acoustically medium size, in terms of living space it is not that large. Also, you do not want ultra deep bass in an appartment building. A smooth response without peaks will disturb your neighbours far less than a boomy one note response. If, at any time in the future, you move into a rather larger space, you can always add another two, even big ones (they do not have to be same size: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/musings-measurements-subwoofers-to.html). Remember, for bass quality the room response is far more important than the subwoofer itself.
 
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kevindd992002

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RSL Speedwoofer 10s will hit 20hz cleanly, capable of playing at 101.5dB (measured at ground plane 1m PEAK dB, not RMS), according to Brent's CEA2010 data. He didn't test the lower frequencies, so we simply don't have the data to say whether it will or not. If you measure the subwoofer in your room, I have a feeling that it will play below 20hz, simply because of the boundary reinforcement of your walls will add to the subwoofer's frequency response and it will play lower than 20hz.

Below 20hz, it's hard for us to hear, but we'll feel the air displacement in the room. I know I do, as when I'm playing test tones below 20hz, I see sub's woofer moving back and forth and can feel the pressure on my body, without hearing anything.

Also, at lower frequencies, the subwoofer is transmitting lots of energy through the floor directly (instead of just through the air). So isolation (de-coupling the subwoofer) is definitely recommended. SVS Isolation feet are a great example of how to do so.

I don't have Denon, but all room correction software are doing a bunch of fancy math to rid of unnecessary peaks in the frequency response (which causes excessive bass), while trying to boost some frequency dips (to raise the bass to be more flat).

Yes, dual subwoofers is always the preferred solution to making bass much cleaner (as it flattens out the frequency peaks and adds to frequency dips). What really clicked for me about the benefits of dual subwoofer, is when I measured my frequency response of my sub and found huge frequency dips...and no matter where I moved the 1 subwoofer, the results weren't as clean as I would have liked. It's pure physics, as one subwoofer isn't capable of playing smoothly (without hitting frequency peaks and dips) in a room. Room correction can help flatten that out, but a better solution is to use a 2nd subwoofer first, and then room correction to EQ the final response. Your experience will be much better at the end.

Plus a 2nd sub, adds about ~3dB to the overall volume, meaning it can play louder than with just a single sub. Not that you probably need to play louder than with a single sub, but that gives your subwoofers more headroom overall.

Never tried a wireless tx/rx from receiver to subwoofer, but cables are so cheap, do you really need to? I would still A/B test with a wire, just to make sure the experience is good.

When I first added a subwoofer to my large main speakers I did not know what I know now. I bought an expensive sub, only to be disappointed by the woolly sound that I subsequently discovered was the product of room modes, even in a really large room (I had never heard of room modes). I could have bought four (four is even better than two) small subs for the price of that single expensive one. I added an ANtimode 8033 dsp room eq unit, and that helped a lot, but primarily in the main listening position. So a second sub is now high on my wish list (my wife will certainly not condone more, and that is fair enough given the size of the main speakers).
In your case, and if you can stretch your budget, I would go for two pretty small sealed subs. If you can, just get it done with - life is too interesting to brood on what you might add next year or the year after. I would opt for small ones because even though the space is acoustically medium size, in terms of living space it is not that large. Also, you do not want ultra deep bass in an appartment building. A smooth response without peaks will disturb your neighbours far less than a boomy one note response. If, at any time in the future, you move into a rather larger space, you can always add another two, even big ones (they do not have to be same size: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/musings-measurements-subwoofers-to.html). Remember, for bass quality the room response is far more important than the subwoofer itself.

Ok, so far a dual subs setup (eventually) seems to make sense. Hopefully, getting 1 RSL Speedwoofer 10S for the time being and then maybe getting another one after a year or so is a good decision. From what I'm getting at, the RSL would do just fine in my room. The RSL is bigger than the Rythmik L12 by about 2 inches on each dimension, so I don't think that's a big of a difference.
 
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