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Topping A50s Headphone Amplifier Review

twofires

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Awesome.

Not sure why everyone is sore it doesn't have balanced in when the partnering DAC (D50s) doesn't have balanced out. It is what it is.

If I wanted to pass the signal through to a line input on an integrated amp rather than use it as a preamp, is there a particular spot on the dial I should set it to, or am I just going to have issues?

Alternatively, does anyone know or a really high quality RCA input switcher?
 

JohnYang1997

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Awesome.

Not sure why everyone is sore it doesn't have balanced in when the partnering DAC (D50s) doesn't have balanced out. It is what it is.

If I wanted to pass the signal through to a line input on an integrated amp rather than use it as a preamp, is there a particular spot on the dial I should set it to, or am I just going to have issues?

Alternatively, does anyone know or a really high quality RCA input switcher?
0db max volume
 

kkeretic

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Awesome.
Alternatively, does anyone know or a really high quality RCA input switcher?

I have this and it works flawlessly, can't hear any difference in sound on anything I use with or without it. I would really like to see RCA bypass on this amp, as on the predecessor A50. Hoped A50s will be an upgrade of A50 just like D50s was to D50 without features cut, but it lacks two unbalanced outputs for parallel use and no bypass :(
 

audio_tony

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Yes. 2.5K

I would have thought 2.5k is a little low for input impedance.

I can see the reason for the choice, however given that there are probably many sources with 10uF (or less) output coupling caps there is a risk that the -3dB point could occur well above 20Hz.

With a 10uF for example, the -3dB point occurs at ~ 6.5Hz which is ok (0.5dB at 20Hz) and unlikely to be audible.

But with a 1uF cap the -3dB point occurs at 66Hz which will most definitely be audible.

The THD will also rise markedly at very low frequencies with a small value cap.
 

JohnYang1997

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I would have thought 2.5k is a little low for input impedance.

I can see the reason for the choice, however given that there are probably many sources with 10uF (or less) output coupling caps there is a risk that the -3dB point could occur well above 20Hz.

With a 10uF for example, the -3dB point occurs at ~ 6.5Hz which is ok (0.5dB at 20Hz) and unlikely to be audible.

But with a 1uF cap the -3dB point occurs at 66Hz which will most definitely be audible.

The THD will also rise markedly at very low frequencies with a small value cap.
Just don't use those. Output caps should long be avoided. We got input caps. 100uF.
 

audio_tony

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Just don't use those. Output caps should long be avoided. We got input caps. 100uF.

But the end user has no control of the value of the output cap of any devices they may be using?

So you're making an assumption that devices are DC coupled which is a bit rash IMHO, and could lead to complaints of your amplifier being bass light if people choose to use a device without DC coupling, or one that uses low value poly caps for example.

For years the standard has been 47k (and in some cases 100k) to ensure good compatibility.
 

JohnYang1997

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But the end user has no control of the value of the output cap of any devices they may be using?

So you're making an assumption that devices are DC coupled which is a bit rash IMHO, and could lead to complaints of your amplifier being bass light if people choose to use a device without DC coupling, or one that uses low value poly caps for example.

For years the standard has been 47k (and in some cases 100k) to ensure good compatibility.
Just don't buy A50s if you are using those. Or better, throw them away and get a new DAC.
 

audio_tony

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Just don't buy A50s if you are using those. Or better, throw them away and get a new DAC.

If I have to buy a new DAC to get the most from this headphone amp, I might just as well buy a DAC with a headphone amp built in.

You have a good product here, but you are seemingly keen to alienate your market in the race for low noise.
 

JohnYang1997

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If I have to buy a new DAC to get the most from this headphone amp, I might just as well buy a DAC with a headphone amp built in.

You have a good product here, but you are seemingly keen to alienate your market in the race for low noise.
No? How many DACs measured on ASR have output capacitors?
Also, is there any good combo dac amp that is as good?
 

restorer-john

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You have a good product here, but you are seemingly keen to alienate your market in the race for low noise.

It's the same for the class D guys- they pass the gain buck to the stage before, but realistically, what does it matter? As long as you can maintain gain and noise through the chain to the end, why not go for the best option?

For me, and all my legacy sources, low levels, high gains and low noise are the pathway. For these modern kids, high levels, low gain and reasonable noise will seal the deal.

@JohnYang1997 impressive performance. :)
 

Soniclife

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Yes, it seems we have entered the "designed for, announced and released on ASR" era... Not a bad thing in terms of performance I guess, but starting to feel a bit repetitive, given how often new models are released.
Everywhere else about most things, "China, stop making so much crap no one needs".
ASR, "China, stop making so many great things people need."
:)
 

usersky

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Does that matter? It's gain limited. It's over 800mW if you give enough voltage.
Actually in a normal usage scenario it pretty much does. I'd buy it to use it (with max 2v input - that's what regular guys like me have) not for some contest. Same dubious (imo) choice as in L30. Every new Topping release makes Heresy look better and better. I'll skip this A50s too.

Yes? Why not?
For one because panthers don't have credit cards ;)
 
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Tatteredmidnight

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Given how closely the high and low gain perform, I can’t help but feel a lot was left on the table here for a few points of SINAD at max gain by omitting a higher gain option. I understand that this is intended to be the “balanced headphone amp”, but it feels like artificial product segmentation to me. Surely many people have both balanced and unbalanced headphones they wish to drive well, is the idea that they buy separate amps for this? Just frustrating to see a very cheap change omitted for apparent marketing reasons.

Same deal with the input impedance, it feels like a step backwards in compatibility for higher “points” added on to a score that is already so far beyond human perception is a net loss. We see the same thing with the SMSL M400, as well as the Topping A90. For my money, the Atom is still completely transparent with 10k input impedance, and that is still arguably a bit low.

I applaud the work done here to push the state of the art so far forward, I just hope we aren’t entering an age of designing for benchmarks at the cost of broadly applicable real-world performance.
 

twofires

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I did have one question, actually @JohnYang1997 if it's okay...

I know that powering this with the P50 reduces max output to 2.4w (which I'm fine with) but the P50 details seem to suggest that you can't quite run 2x5V 1A DC + 1x 15V 1A DC off the P50. If I were to try - in my case D50s + Chromecast Audio + A50s - would it just cap the A50s to 0.9A and reduce the max output accordingly, or would something melt? I've found the CCA can definitely use all of that 5V 1A sometimes, and spits the dummy when it doesn't get it.
 

JohnYang1997

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I did have one question, actually @JohnYang1997 if it's okay...

I know that powering this with the P50 reduces max output to 2.4w (which I'm fine with) but the P50 details seem to suggest that you can't quite run 2x5V 1A DC + 1x 15V 1A DC off the P50. If I were to try - in my case D50s + Chromecast Audio + A50s - would it just cap the A50s to 0.9A and reduce the max output accordingly, or would something melt? I've found the CCA can definitely use all of that 5V 1A sometimes, and spits the dummy when it doesn't get it.
I don't think that's all correct. But what I can tell is that there's no issue doing so.
Only thing you need to take notice and watch out for is the working temperature. Don't let the P50 run too hot. Other than that it should be all fine.
 

Eetu

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Surely many people have both balanced and unbalanced headphones they wish to drive well, is the idea that they buy separate amps for this?
I would imagine the idea is to give more inexpensive pared down alternatives to the A90.
 

JohnYang1997

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I would imagine the idea is to give more inexpensive pared down alternatives to the A90.
There are many reasons for A50s to exist otherwise it wouldn't.

Firstly it's an upgrade to the sort of failed A50. This makes the stack A50s+D50s+P50 a real good stack.

A90 is still large for many people and many desk. If you take out the XLR input it can be made thinner hence allows for better stacking ability. Making it smaller allows to the chassis price to be somewhat reduced. Similar design would cost 3 times for the size of A90 (though they are different processes). Having smaller footprint is always a good thing.

A90 is definitely an overkill for many people. The whole A90+D90 stack is very expensive still. A50s+D50s stack is much cheaper and still have most features. With P50 solved the L30+E30 can't be powered from single source "problem". It's neat in every way. And there's simply minimal difference if you have balanced interconnections or not. Balanced output is what matters in actually using the device. If one doesn't need or want balanced output, there is L30+E30/D10s. A50s is still plenty powerful for almost all headphones, no one complained lack of power in noisy HIFI show.

Compare to other competitors that are the same price or cheaper, A50s definitely holds its own.
 

ElNino

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This is probably a really dumb question, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the differences between the A50s and the L30. The L30 seems to have higher performance and is cheaper, and they're both single-ended amps. What am I missing?
 
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