New 110th Anniversary Denon products with "ULTRA AL32"

[Anterantz]

Hello, how well do you know, the akm4490Q dac that the denon 8500h mounts is 768khz and 32 bits because it only supports usb, flac, etc. 192/24? What happens that denon layer? And now the ultra al32 comes out that can reach 386khz / 32, which is strange, right?

 

[valerianf]

The AVR X4700h that Amir tested has the AL32 processing.
I do not remember Amir saying anything impressing about the AL32 processing.
It is why if I buy a Denon it will be a 3700h.
AL32 seems to be a marketing slogan nowadays.

 

[restorer-john]

With all of the talk in the Marantz 30 product about Denon Alpha processing, Denon just announced their new 110th Anniversary products which really do seem like new versions. The integrated AMP is very different from the PMA-2500NE

"The PMA-2500NE used a one-stage amplification with a high-gain amplifier, while the PMA-A110 adopted a new two-stage configuration with a variable gain preamp and a power amplifier. By incrementing or decreasing the gain of the preamp according to the volume, the noise level can be dramatically improved by amplifying only the power amplifier without amplifying the preamp within the range of commonly used volume."

Interestingly, when the PMA-2500NE came out, they said that the one-stage was better
"Murayama: First of all, we stopped the two-stage configuration of the conventional flat amplifier and the power amplifier, and adopted a high-gain amplifier that amplifies 45.5dB at a time. As a result, the number of elements and circuits passed through was reduced, and the route was able to be greatly shortened, so the configuration became simpler."

What's old is new again. It all goes full cycle every 30 years or so. Yawn.

The Marantz 30 amplifier certainly isn't the same league as TOTL Marantz amplifiers of years gone by.

 

[GXAlan]

What's old is new again. It all goes full cycle every 30 years or so. Yawn.

The Marantz 30 amplifier certainly isn't the same league as TOTL Marantz amplifiers of years gone by.

The question is how the TOTL Denon compare to TOTL Denons of years gone by. We don't get tha PMA-SX1 in the US, but the the 110th Anniversary looks to be better than the PMA-2500NE.

 

[restorer-john]

The question is how the TOTL Denon compare to TOTL Denons of years gone by. We don't get tha PMA-SX1 in the US, but the the 110th Anniversary looks to be better than the PMA-2500NE.

Personally, I don't think much of the TOTL Denons after about 1995 or so. Specifications and performance sure have suffered since then and they've spent more time on the aesthetics of their products than the internals IMO.

Take the POA-3000 which continued for 14 years or so with several revisions. Not much to touch that from Denon since.

https://1001hifi.blogspot.com/2018/05/denon-poa-3000rg-mos-super-optical.html

 

[lashto]

The anniversary AVC-110 looks interesting, someone summarized the changes pretty good on avsforum. Marketing blabla aside, there might be a few useful upgrades (compared to topline X8500H). Could be the first AVR who earns the highres-audio badge (i.e. >105 SINAD)

 

[voodooless]

The anniversary AVC-110 looks interesting, someone summarized the changes pretty good on avsforum. Marketing blabla aside, there might be a few useful upgrades (compared to topline X8500H). Could be the first AVR who earns the highres-audio badge (i.e. >105 SINAD)

I doubt that. The pre-section maby, definitely not the amps though. Instead of selecting a lot of fancy caps they could also spend some time on the circuit design itself.. They still use DC blocking caps . For such a high-end device that seems a real shame.

 

[lashto]

I doubt that. The pre-section maby, definitely not the amps though. Instead of selecting a lot of fancy caps they could also spend some time on the circuit design itself.. They still use DC blocking caps . For such a high-end device that seems a real shame.

The amps were measured at ~85dB SINAD, pretty much zero chances of 100+ SINAD there. A full redesign will be really useful in that section but don't expect anything soon.
The preamps however were at ~102dB so a few small changes might bring that into 105+ territory (i.e. 17+ distortion-free ENOBits). Probably 100% inaudible and just a 'psychological' highres threshold. But at least those highres-audio stickers won't hurt my eyes so much anymore

 

[Anterantz]

Hi, I just did tests connecting a rotel stage to the front trio and in my case I have not noticed any improvement in the sound! My room is small and my gold100 and center c150 are fed by the denon 8500h.

 

[GXAlan]

I doubt that. The pre-section maby, definitely not the amps though. Instead of selecting a lot of fancy caps they could also spend some time on the circuit design itself.. They still use DC blocking caps . For such a high-end device that seems a real shame.

That's probably the safest strategy, right? In case the end-user accidentally shorts the input/output?

 

[voodooless]

That's probably the safest strategy, right? In case the end-user accidentally shorts the input/output?

Only the output could be an issue, by usually there is a series resistance that would take care of that. It’s just a matter engineering.

 

[Anterantz]

Hi I just read a former owner of a denon avc x8500h who just upgraded to the avc 110 and he says it sounds better than the x8500h and he has bought the integrated pma-2500 and the avc 110 sounds more airy, clear and clean. ..what do you think?

 

[GXAlan]

Hi I just read a former owner of a denon avc x8500h who just upgraded to the avc 110 and he says it sounds better than the x8500h and he has bought the integrated pma-2500 and the avc 110 sounds more airy, clear and clean. ..what do you think?

I am willing to bet that it measures better (we saw the effect of a capacitor on the X6700H) but hard to know if it really does sound better. The price difference between the x8500HA and Anniversary AVC is much larger than I would have thought.

 

[VintageFlanker]

As a former owner of the PMA-2500NE, I've to say I kind of miss it... Not that it sounded better than my actual IceEdge amp, but it was a nice and massive piece of electronic, all integrated, sitting in the living room, and that volume knob, so satisfying to play with.

I have to admit I'm very tempted by the PMA-A110. Love the color, love the white leds, interested by the 3 optical inputs. (Also remember the DAC of my 2500 to be more than audibly good enough).

Still, 3500€ is not cheap by any means. I would have to drop my ADI-2 DAC (and my AS1200) to buy one of these. Definitely not a good idea.

he says it sounds better than the x8500h and he has bought the integrated pma-2500 and the avc 110 sounds more airy, clear and clean. ..what do you think?

I think confirmation bias works very well.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Pretty attractive shots from the (highly subjective) Lite Magazin DE's Review:

Simply cannot resist to this... I pre-ordered mine.

 

[Panelhead]

Simple, gorgeous, well made. Considering an AHB2 is three, 3500.00 for this is reasonable.
Like this much better than the Marantz. But reading the information it sounds like it uses a single pair of mosfet transistors per channel. Not a powerhouse amplifier.
I want one too.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Considering an AHB2 is three, 3500.00 for this is reasonable.

The AHB2 is very (very) rare here in EU and when in stock, costs at least 3500-3600€.

Not a powerhouse amplifier.

Of course, the A110 has to be considered as a all-in-one unit, thought not competitive regarding power. Still, if it follows the former A100 and 2500NE performance, the "80W/8Ω" rating should be very conservative at the end. By many measurments, the PMA-2XX0 and A100 come in reality closer to 120W/8Ω - 200W/4Ω. And this with a massive damping factor as well (for what matters...).

 

[Panelhead]

I think this unit, the Yamaha S-A1200, 2200, and 3200 are all built in the same factory. Marantz 30 too.
Seems many weigh around 53 lbs also. Guess the devil is in the details.
If I was looking for an integrated amp, this would be high on the list.

 

[VintageFlanker]

 

[Panelhead]

Congrats are in order. Enjoy!